The Sundering is actually going to bring back all the gods

[Irennan]

[quote:10v2v5vl]Following the wotc idea, I think that could be also plausible a return of Eilistraee but like a 'Dark Elf' or rather not contamined like her freed followers : 'Dark wood elves'.[/quote:10v2v5vl]

I wouldn't like this tbh. The 'redemption' was completely pointless and out of character for the Dark Maiden. Eilistraeen drow, like most, are proud of their identity and wouldn't want to change it for any reason*, neither Eilistraee -who values so much and protects freedom of choice, life and self-expression for any creature- would force such a change upon them (because this is what happened, they had no choice, no say on such a drastic change for their life)**. Eilistraeens fight to create a future and a place in the world for their people, where they can be free to choose their own life and build their own happiness, instead of being forced into some random non-life BS and being Lolth's puppets. And they do it [i:10v2v5vl]as drow[/i:10v2v5vl], because their point is that drow can choose to break their chains and be free/redeemed [i:10v2v5vl]as drow[/i:10v2v5vl]. The transformation basically denies this, it says ''oh look, they are good now because they were un-drowified'' which is the total opposite of what Eilistraee stands for. Then there's the 'sacrifice' that the Dark Maiden supposedly did in order to achieve this unwanted/unnecessary (even tyrannical) transformation: by choosing it, she basically turned her back to the [i:10v2v5vl]vast majority[/i:10v2v5vl] of drow, letting them in Lolth's hands (but hey, according to some angel the unchanged drow were 'unwilling' and to be 'cast down', so it's k), which is totally out of character for Eilistraee (also, this is her quest, she gave so much for it and kept , why would she abandon it to anyone else -even Corellon- to achieve something that she and her people don't need or even want -and that actually goes against what they fight for-? The Deus Ex Machina is strong here)

Sadly, there's so much out of character actions, inconsistences, nonsense and eyesore in this lore (original sin-like curses, innate evilness and redemption symbolized by removal of a curse instead of by mortal choice are just that), that I would like to see it ignored forever. It almost lookes like they tried to ruin the characters (and they kinda managed to do so in the canon Realms) beside removing them in those books. The only attempt made to give it a meaning (which consisted of having the Masked Lady giving up her divinty for the 'redemption' and Eilistraee and Vhaeraun continuing their quest as archfey) was scrapped 2 years ago...


[quote:10v2v5vl]But I haven't so much faith, because all the drow pantheon has been cleared for make more room for Lolth and only her evil follower, so I fear that also the 5.0 FR version would not contemplate Eilistraee sadly. This is a shame beacuase her 'image' isn't replaceable by another one. Look like that nowadays it's more interesting having a lot of evil deities (Myrkul look like will be back) instead of really positive one...
[/quote:10v2v5vl]

True, Eilistraee is one of the few deities that are actually interesting as characters and that aren't limited to simply being god(dess) of X. Also, she and Vhaeraun are truly unique to the identity of the FR and the drow in it, being iconic to them and what makes them different from the standard dark elves. I still have a little hope that Ed will bring them back (hopefully ignoring the awful redemption lore, like they have done so far, and like they kinda did with the ridiculous divine love triangle thing that was behind Helm's disappearence), but they left me with a bitter taste in mouth once when they scrapped the archfey thing, so whatever...


*Think Liriel. She is an extremization of what I'm talking about, but most drow like and want to be drow, just like most human like and want to be human. It's and identity matter.
**Even neglecting this, what did they gain from the transformation? It's not like the curse had any real influence on their life (it does nothing, actually), their 'taint' doesn't force them to do 'ebil' stuff. If it's about the afterlife, then it is just stupid: they could already go to Eilistraee's realm, and I think they were very happy with spending the afterlife with their goddess. So why Arvandor, why even care about that curse?

[Regcod]

[quote="Irennan":2mmyfov1][quote:2mmyfov1]Following the wotc idea, I think that could be also plausible a return of Eilistraee but like a 'Dark Elf' or rather not contamined like her freed followers : 'Dark wood elves'.[/quote:2mmyfov1]

I wouldn't like this tbh. The 'redemption' was completely pointless and out of character for the Dark Maiden. Eilistraeen drow, like most, are proud of their identity and wouldn't want to change it for any reason*, neither Eilistraee -who values so much and protects freedom of choice, life and self-expression for any creature- would force such a change upon them (because this is what happened, they had no choice, no say on such a drastic change for their life)**. Eilistraeens fight to create a future and a place in the world for their people, where they can be free to choose their own life and build their own happiness, instead of being forced into some random non-life BS and being Lolth's puppets. And they do it [i:2mmyfov1]as drow[/i:2mmyfov1], because their point is that drow can choose to break their chains and be free/redeemed [i:2mmyfov1]as drow[/i:2mmyfov1]. The transformation basically denies this, it says ''oh look, they are good now because they were un-drowified'' which is the total opposite of what Eilistraee stands for. Then there's the 'sacrifice' that the Dark Maiden supposedly did in order to achieve this unwanted/unnecessary (even tyrannical) transformation: by choosing it, she basically turned her back to the [i:2mmyfov1]vast majority[/i:2mmyfov1] of drow, letting them in Lolth's hands (but hey, according to some angel the unchanged drow were 'unwilling' and to be 'cast down', so it's k), which is totally out of character for Eilistraee (also, this is her quest, she gave so much for it and kept , why would she abandon it to anyone else -even Corellon- to achieve something that she and her people don't need or even want -and that actually goes against what they fight for-? The Deus Ex Machina is strong here)

Sadly, there's so much out of character actions, inconsistences, nonsense and eyesore in this lore (original sin-like curses, innate evilness and redemption symbolized by removal of a curse instead of by mortal choice are just that), that I would like to see it ignored forever. It almost lookes like they tried to ruin the characters (and they kinda managed to do so in the canon Realms) beside removing them in those books. The only attempt made to give it a meaning (which consisted of having the Masked Lady giving up her divinty for the 'redemption' and Eilistraee and Vhaeraun continuing their quest as archfey) was scrapped 2 years ago...


[quote:2mmyfov1]But I haven't so much faith, because all the drow pantheon has been cleared for make more room for Lolth and only her evil follower, so I fear that also the 5.0 FR version would not contemplate Eilistraee sadly. This is a shame beacuase her 'image' isn't replaceable by another one. Look like that nowadays it's more interesting having a lot of evil deities (Myrkul look like will be back) instead of really positive one...
[/quote:2mmyfov1]

True, Eilistraee is one of the few deities that are actually interesting as characters and that aren't limited to simply being god(dess) of X. Also, she and Vhaeraun are truly unique to the identity of the FR and the drow in it, being iconic to them and what makes them different from the standard dark elves. I still have a little hope that Ed will bring them back (hopefully ignoring the awful redemption lore, like they have done so far, and like they kinda did with the ridiculous divine love triangle thing that was behind Helm's disappearence), but they left me with a bitter taste in mouth once when they scrapped the archfey thing, so whatever...


*Think Liriel. She is an extremization of what I'm talking about, but most drow like and want to be drow, just like most human like and want to be human. It's and identity matter.
**Even neglecting this, what did they gain from the transformation? It's not like the curse had any real influence on their life (it does nothing, actually), their 'taint' doesn't force them to do 'ebil' stuff. If it's about the afterlife, then it is just stupid: they could already go to Eilistraee's realm, and I think they were very happy with spending the afterlife with their goddess. So why Arvandor, why even care about that curse?[/quote:2mmyfov1]

I see your point of view clearly.
They 'transformed' the appareance of a race saying that wasn't anymore cursed, trying to erasing their aggressivity with the transition... but memory remain, you can't completely erase what they lived, also because we are also talking of people that live more than us
There are a lot of 'empty' topic to be filled to consider their explanation plausible, being accepted by Seldarine only because the curse was lift is a bit restrictive : why not accept them anyway having they showed their good behaviour?
I'm just really curious to see why decided to bring back Myrkul (useless because you already have enough evil and death like deities) and not someone that could try to steal Lolth domain or oppose her. Corellon as 'surface' deity, couldn't as mentality being considered the true counterpart, there must be one good aligned on the underdark and Eilistraee was perfect.

[Irennan]

[quote="Regcod":bkbxivhh]
I see your point of view clearly.
They 'transformed' the appareance of a race saying that wasn't anymore cursed, trying to erasing their aggressivity with the transition... but memory remain, you can't completely erase what they lived, also because we are also talking of people that live more than us
[/quote:bkbxivhh]

NOTE: I use drow and dark elves as synonyms, I will refer to the transformed ones as brownies

It's not only that, it's that they completely missed the point on what 'redemption' is for Eilistraee: it actually comes with the freedom for drow to choose their own life, with the understanding that it is possible to be masters/mistresses of themselves, to live out of Lolth's clutches (unlike she wants drow to believe). It's mental, not some magical BS about erasing random curses and innate ebilness.

Eilistraee and her followers are about the struggle for this freedom, making a people out of the drow (as in united, protecting each other, working together to overcome difficulties, instead of backstabbing, brainwashed, paranoid), fighting until they manage to build a place in the world (both figuratively and materially speaking) which the dark elves can belong to and be free in. There is the will to show that the drow can achieve great things, can build, create and flourish despite all the hardship they get; the will to ignite the change and give back their people the life they were robbed of. All of this is about the drow-ness, and about what drow can accomplish. Turning them into brownies just ruins this identity and is out of character: they don't want to be something different -being proud of their identity- they want a better future for [i:bkbxivhh]all[/i:bkbxivhh] dark elves. What happened in the books is like having a story about black people fighting for their rights in which the protagonists turn into some other ethnicity at the end. It makes no sense.


[quote:bkbxivhh]There are a lot of 'empty' topic to be filled to consider their explanation plausible, being accepted by Seldarine only because the curse was lift is a bit restrictive : why not accept them anyway having they showed their good behaviour?[/quote:bkbxivhh]

I don't even see why they should be so desperate about being accepted by the Seldarine and greenlighted into Aravandor, having the possibility to be with Eilistraee after death is what they obviously prefer. I mean, followers of the Dark Dancer try to establish peace, harmony and mutual understanding between races, they want to be seen as Tel'Quessir (as in being considered part of the People, not as in losing their drow identity), but don't seek or need their ''approval'', especially not if it comes with such hypocrisy and cost attached. From Demihuman Deities:

''few appreciate that Eilistraee is [b:bkbxivhh]forging her own path[/b:bkbxivhh], one that welcomes beings of all races who revel in life and freedom of expression of all that entails''.

That's what's awesome about her and her people, what made me think 'damn cool' when finding out about them: they are the struggling, tenacious underdogs and rebels who keep going on with their goals no matter what the others want or do to oppose them.
As I said, they want peace with the elves, but if the price of it is sacrificing everything they hold dear and fight for, I'm pretty sure they would go 'screw them' mode and give 0 fucks about not being allowed in Arvandor.


[quote:bkbxivhh]I'm just really curious to see why decided to bring back Myrkul (useless because you already have enough evil and death like deities) and not someone that could try to steal Lolth domain or oppose her. Corellon as 'surface' deity, couldn't as mentality being considered the true counterpart, there must be one good aligned on the underdark and Eilistraee was perfect.[/quote:bkbxivhh]

Because they are trying to bring back all the popular deities, and the dead three are quite so. Now Eilistraee is [i:bkbxivhh]very[/i:bkbxivhh] popular and unique, but -seeing all the opposition anything related to Eilistraee gets at WotC, someone there must want the drow to be one note, all the same 'for powah and the evulz' race, to be used as monsters and nothing else. I mean they had their authors produce material about Eilistraee/Vhaeraun as archfeys to include in a Menzo sourcebook, produce art about it, even use it as teaser just to cut all of it at the very end and not even publish it as a D&D insider article (depsite it being literally free for them, since they already paid the authors for the content, and depsite requests for it).

Plus yeah, Corellon is boring. Eilistraee vs Lolth, rebel and underdog vs tyrant, daughter vs mother, change and growth vs tradition and stagnation is much more interesting and Realms-specific than a simple elves vs drow.

[Regcod]

[quote="Irennan":fmjuxj8v][quote="Regcod":fmjuxj8v]
I see your point of view clearly.
They 'transformed' the appareance of a race saying that wasn't anymore cursed, trying to erasing their aggressivity with the transition... but memory remain, you can't completely erase what they lived, also because we are also talking of people that live more than us
[/quote:fmjuxj8v]

NOTE: I use drow and dark elves as synonyms, I will refer to the transformed ones as brownies

It's not only that, it's that they completely missed the point on what 'redemption' is for Eilistraee: it actually comes with the freedom for drow to choose their own life, with the understanding that it is possible to be masters/mistresses of themselves, to live out of Lolth's clutches (unlike she wants drow to believe). It's mental, not some magical BS about erasing random curses and innate ebilness.

Eilistraee and her followers are about the struggle for this freedom, making a people out of the drow (as in united, protecting each other, working together to overcome difficulties, instead of backstabbing, brainwashed, paranoid), fighting until they manage to build a place in the world (both figuratively and materially speaking) which the dark elves can belong to and be free in. There is the will to show that the drow can achieve great things, can build, create and flourish despite all the hardship they get; the will to ignite the change and give back their people the life they were robbed of. All of this is about the drow-ness, and about what drow can accomplish. Turning them into brownies just ruins this identity and is out of character: they don't want to be something different -being proud of their identity- they want a better future for [i:fmjuxj8v]all[/i:fmjuxj8v] dark elves. What happened in the books is like having a story about black people fighting for their rights in which the protagonists turn into some other ethnicity at the end. It makes no sense.


[quote:fmjuxj8v]There are a lot of 'empty' topic to be filled to consider their explanation plausible, being accepted by Seldarine only because the curse was lift is a bit restrictive : why not accept them anyway having they showed their good behaviour?[/quote:fmjuxj8v]

I don't even see why they should be so desperate about being accepted by the Seldarine and greenlighted into Aravandor, having the possibility to be with Eilistraee after death is what they obviously prefer. I mean, followers of the Dark Dancer try to establish peace, harmony and mutual understanding between races, they want to be seen as Tel'Quessir (as in being considered part of the People, not as in losing their drow identity), but don't seek or need their ''approval'', especially not if it comes with such hypocrisy and cost attached. From Demihuman Deities:

''Eilistraee is [b:fmjuxj8v]forging her own path[/b:fmjuxj8v], one that welcomes beings of all races who revel in life and freedom of expression of all that entails''.

That's what's awesome about her and her people, what made me think 'damn cool' when finding about them: they are the struggling, tenacious underdogs and rebels who keep going on with their goals no matter what the others want or do to oppose them.
As I said, they want peace with the elves, but if the price of it is sacrificing everything they hold dear and fight for, I'm pretty sure they would go 'screw them' mode and give 0 fucks about not being allowed in Arvandor.


[quote:fmjuxj8v]I'm just really curious to see why decided to bring back Myrkul (useless because you already have enough evil and death like deities) and not someone that could try to steal Lolth domain or oppose her. Corellon as 'surface' deity, couldn't as mentality being considered the true counterpart, there must be one good aligned on the underdark and Eilistraee was perfect.[/quote:fmjuxj8v]

Because they are trying to bring back all the popular deities, and the dead three are quite so. Now Eilistraee is [i:fmjuxj8v]very[/i:fmjuxj8v] popular and unique, but -seeing all the opposition anything related to Eilistraee gets at WotC, someone there must want the drow to be one note, all the same 'for powah and the evulz' race, to be used as monsters and nothing else. I mean they had their authors produce material about Eilistraee/Vhaeraun as archfeys to include in a Menzo sourcebook, produce art about it, even use it as teaser just to cut all of it at the very end and not even publish it as a D&D insider article (depsite it being literally free for them, since they already paid the authors for the content, and depsite requests for it).

Plus yeah, Corellon is boring. Eilistraee vs Lolth, rebel and underdog vs tyrant, daughter vs mother, change and growth vs tradition and stagnation is much more interesting and Realms-specific than a simple elves vs drow.[/quote:fmjuxj8v]

I must say that I'm fallen in love with this deities but on my ignorance I understood really little at the end, and this happen also because I admit I never read any novel book but only small part reported here and there on some web sites

The first poin is really more clear than before, reading the events after Eilistraee death I imagined another kind of reasons, but your are more meaningful. Look like that her end was abruptly and quickly shortened for letting as soon as possible leave alone Lolth in underdark and erase any kind of good drow. Who knows? pheraps Eilistraee has became too much popular for wotc???

For the second point, I've not explained very well what I meant, english isn't my first languages and I make so many mistake sorry
What I meant that pheraps they considered the lifting curse as an excuse to remove all good drow once at all being accepted by Seldarine, but I agree that is a really really really poor excuse, I'm not satisfied at all for that and anyway I never consider in my D&D campaign Eilistraee's demise

I agree with third point, having played also with online neverwinter night servers, I saw how the majority of people loved evil deities and chosed to have an evil character also. Bane, Cyric where the number one for them, while Shar was never condered, I don't know why.

Anyway my hope is that with the Sundering all will be brought back at least to year 1372 DR restoring these deities but I haven't 'faith' in wotc....

[Irennan]

[quote="Regcod":38k8m6p4]

I must say that I'm fallen in love with this deities but on my ignorance I understood really little at the end, and this happen also because I admit I never read any novel book but only small part reported here and there on some web sites

The first poin is really more clear than before, reading the events after Eilistraee death I imagined another kind of reasons, but your are more meaningful. Look like that her end was abruptly and quickly shortened for letting as soon as possible leave alone Lolth in underdark and erase any kind of good drow. Who knows? pheraps Eilistraee has became too much popular for wotc???[/quote:38k8m6p4]

I haven't read LP either, and never will. Like you, I've gathered info around, from sourcebooks, FR lore, spoilers about those novels, and that's why I said that those novels missed the point almost entirely: if you compare the portrayal of the drow gods in them with the previous lore, you'll see a lot of contradictions which just make the characters worse. But then, the author was pretty open about them being only Deus Ex Machina to get rid of the Dark Seldarine, and that she disliked the changes herself (and purposely left things muddy, so that it wouldn't be certain whether or not Eilie died in canon). But I don't think it was about Eilistraee becoming popular, companies tend to like when this happens, because it means that they can get money from that, more like WotC wanting to standardize FR drow with their 'new shiny points of light world'.

[quote:38k8m6p4]For the second point, I've not explained very well what I meant, english isn't my first languages and I make so many mistake sorry
What I meant that pheraps they considered the lifting curse as an excuse to remove all good drow once at all being accepted by Seldarine, but I agree that is a really really really poor excuse, I'm not satisfied at all for that and anyway I never consider in my D&D campaign Eilistraee's demise [/quote:38k8m6p4]

Well, yes. The whole thing basically was ''oh look, the good drow now are accepted by the Seldarine, so they get to be wood elves, because drow are innately evil and the non transformed ones were 'unwilling' and thus to be 'cast down''', which is an eyesore, and even nonsensical and in contradiction with previous lore, at that.

[quote:38k8m6p4]I agree with third point, having played also with online neverwinter night servers, I saw how the majority of people loved evil deities and chosed to have an evil character also. Bane, Cyric where the number one for them, while Shar was never condered, I don't know why.

Anyway my hope is that with the Sundering all will be brought back at least to year 1372 DR restoring these deities but I haven't 'faith' in wotc.... [/quote:38k8m6p4]

As I said, I have a tiny hope that Ed can do something to get E and V, whom he created, back in the canon Realms. If he can't/doesn't want to do that, while other much more generic and less flavorful deities get restored (like Helm. Don't get me wrong, I like Helm, but Eilistraee and Vhaeraun have so much story behind them that it is a true waste to ignore it), then we can stay assured that WotC doesn't give a rat ass about drow having any true depth and variety as a race. Lolth's children represent the most basic concept behind the growth of any society: ideas are born, they spread, some people see that they lead to a better life, they embrace and support it, while others don't. The ones who do could band together, work/fight to achieve something for them or their race -- it's the need to improve one's own condition that all beings have, but that apparently drow (and now orcs and goblin too, according to Salvatore) for some reason don't.

[Irennan]

Update.

So, now that all the Sundering books are out, I can pretty much tell that ''all the gods are back'' is gigantic BS.

The only ones who are back are Bhaal, Mask, Helm and Mystra. Vhaeraun was reported having a chosen in 'The Adversary', but nothing in the book actually said that, it was the author who said that she 'grabbed Vhaeraun because apparently all gods were back', but the fact that he was not even mentioned means that he didn't really receive WotC's stamp of approval.

In the Herald all the seven sisters but Qilue (and the Simbul, but she kind of merged with Mystra at the end of Elminster Enraged, IIRC, so returning her would have been stupid), are there. That's just a big 'screw you' to Eilistraee fans.

I don't even know why they oppose the idea of her being included in the canon Realms so much, despite her popularity and being among the deities that many people wish to be back. They feed us the 'Ao may have brought her back' thingy, but their decision is pretty clear. If they actually -and wrongly, for many reasons already discussed ad nauseam- think that she and Vhaeraun 'ruin' the concept of drow isntead of enriching it, then we probably aren't going to see anything (not even more lore set in the past -which would have been pointless anyway because of how LP events handled the matter- but still...) beyond mere mentions of them, basically retconning two such cool and deep characters out of the setting.
This is just utter crap, really, screw this...

[Irennan]

THO posted this on CK:
[quote:mpzoq7xk]Heh. One of those hints would have been me, saying this (in a PM to Blueblade, because he asked):

Ed tells me it's HIGHLY likely we haven't seen the last of Eilistraee.

So I can see where Blueblade formed that impression.

And I happen to know that in the initial outlining stages of The Herald, Ed was specifically being asked to prune back the cast of "big-name" characters onstage. Partly to keep the book from becoming unwieldy or too long, and partly because of other, still secret plans. My own guess is that Eilistraee is part of those.
But I could be wrong. There are things Ed can't talk about, and when we're face to face he has a way of grinning and shaking his head to signal when I've asked about one of them . . . and he has done this when asked about Eilistraee (who was his creation, remember).
love,
THO

My own thinking is that we'll learn more about Lolth going forward in Bob Salvatore's next Drizzt novel, and more about Eilistraee going forward somewhere else that we don't know about yet.
love,
THO
[/quote:mpzoq7xk]

Idk what to think, or if this 'secret plan' to bring Eilistraee back -assuming that there is actually one- will be concretized in the 5E Realms, or if we will have to wait other 6-7 years to see anything, or if it will end up like the other plan to get her back in the published Realms...

[Shir'le E. Illios]

Honestly I'm not surprised. Disappointed, but not surprised.

As for "maybe they have plans"... I'll believe it when I see it.


Love -x-x-x-

Shir'le

[Regcod]

[quote="Shir'le E. Illios":1nwkused]Honestly I'm not surprised. Disappointed, but not surprised.

As for "maybe they have plans"... I'll believe it when I see it.


Love -x-x-x-

Shir'le[/quote:1nwkused]

Have you ever wrote privately to The Hooded One on candlekeep.com presenting this site?

[Shir'le E. Illios]

[quote="Regcod":2pp3ei6e]Have you ever wrote privately to The Hooded One on candlekeep.com presenting this site?[/quote:2pp3ei6e]
I have not, no. It always feels to me that they probably get badgered enough by fans as is.

I should clarify though that I wasn't accosting Mr Greenwood or THO or anything like that with my comment. Just that there have been plans before with authors who I believe were absolutely sincere... but in the end WotC got in the way. Even if there are plans now and people actively working on things, I don't have much faith in WotC to see things through.

In the end I guess it's in our hands more than anything.


Love -x-x-x-

Shir'le

[Regcod]

[quote="Shir'le E. Illios":3l6ne05v][quote="Regcod":3l6ne05v]Have you ever wrote privately to The Hooded One on candlekeep.com presenting this site?[/quote:3l6ne05v]
I have not, no. It always feels to me that they probably get badgered enough by fans as is.

I should clarify though that I wasn't accosting Mr Greenwood or THO or anything like that with my comment. Just that there have been plans before with authors who I believe were absolutely sincere... but in the end WotC got in the way. Even if there are plans now and people actively working on things, I don't have much faith in WotC to see things through.

In the end I guess it's in our hands more than anything.


Love -x-x-x-

Shir'le[/quote:3l6ne05v]

You're right, they have a lot of fans that contact them with thousands of motivation but... I think they would be positively surprised to see this site... and if you want I can 'disturb' them bringing them the link of this beautiful place

It's normal for you to be 'upset' (let me use this improper word please) for how things are gone. I'm not upset, I'm furious and if asked directly I'll answer sincerly : criticism exist for confrontation and improvement if made in the right way
Faith in wotc? I understand them, they have to survive and the only way is to make more money they can... but I'm also a really rebellious person, so I can't forgive the changes they made to Forgotten Realms until they don't fix everything... so for now I play canonical history until 1376 DR and wait FR 5.0 ... but in a Candlekeep forum, THO at the end of a reply wrote something like "remember that Eilistraee is a Ed creation", letting understand that Ed's creation soon or later will pop up from who-know-where suddenly...

Ok, these are my thoughts, as is my personal opinion that this site MUST be known better also by the 'gods'

[Irennan]

[quote="Regcod":184odsd3]

Faith in wotc? I understand them, they have to survive and the only way is to make more money they can... but I'm also a really rebellious person, so I can't forgive the changes they made to Forgotten Realms until they don't fix everything... so for now I play canonical history until 1376 DR and wait FR 5.0 ... but in a Candlekeep forum, THO at the end of a reply wrote something like "remember that Eilistraee is a Ed creation", letting understand that Ed's creation soon or later will pop up from who-know-where suddenly...
[/quote:184odsd3]

The irony is that WotC must sell, but bringing Eilistraee back in canon would likely increase sales, as she is very popular and a lot of people were upset by what WotC did (especially considering that -on top of her removal from the published setting- her portrayal in WotSQ/LP was out of character and even nonsensical in relation to her goa ).

The reason of what they did is more of a design choice about drow, they must be a one-note parody 'ebil' villains, except for Drizzt and a couple other dudes (cause he is the cash cow). However this design philosophy makes very little sense in the Realms, as Eilistraee and Vhaeraun are huge part of what distinguishes and makes realmsian drow unique.

[Irennan]

Apparently Drow will be a core player character race in 5E, and FR will be be their flagship, main setting now.

[url:1sp4dhk6]http://www.escapistmagazine.com/article ... e-Mearls.3[/url:1sp4dhk6]
5th paragraph, just under the PHB cover picture. The part on FR being the main setting is on page 5, under the first picture again.

This is just the perfect time to bring Eilistraee and Vhaeraun back. If they don't, it will be their loss: not everyone wants to roleplay a brainwashed Lolth worshipper, or a Drizzt-like rengade (who is FAR different from Eilistraeens)...

[Dostrealt]

[quote="Irennan":18dt5x88]Apparently Drow will be a core player character race in 5E, and FR will be be their flagship, main setting now.

[url:18dt5x88]http://www.escapistmagazine.com/article ... e-Mearls.3[/url:18dt5x88]
5th paragraph, just under the PHB cover picture. The part on FR being the main setting is on page 5, under the first picture again.

This is just the perfect time to bring Eilistraee and Vhaeraun back. If they don't, it will be their loss: not everyone wants to roleplay a brainwashed Lolth worshipper, or a Drizzt-like rengade (who is FAR different from Eilistraeens)...[/quote:18dt5x88]

Well they need to bring back Eilistraee at the very least (or maybe allow drow clerics to worship elven deities).

[Irennan]

[quote="Dostrealt":3d9fy7of][quote="Irennan":3d9fy7of]Apparently Drow will be a core player character race in 5E, and FR will be be their flagship, main setting now.

[url:3d9fy7of]http://www.escapistmagazine.com/article ... e-Mearls.3[/url:3d9fy7of]
5th paragraph, just under the PHB cover picture. The part on FR being the main setting is on page 5, under the first picture again.

This is just the perfect time to bring Eilistraee and Vhaeraun back. If they don't, it will be their loss: not everyone wants to roleplay a brainwashed Lolth worshipper, or a Drizzt-like rengade (who is FAR different from Eilistraeens)...[/quote:3d9fy7of]

Well they need to bring back Eilistraee at the very least (or maybe allow drow clerics to worship elven deities).[/quote:3d9fy7of]

Merely allowing worship of the Seldarine wouldn't work. If a player wanted it, drow clerics could already worship any deity in 4e (they were not a core race,tho). But 'having a deity' is not the reason why drow being core pc race is the perfect opportunity for Eilistraee to come back, it's having a [i:3d9fy7of]unique[/i:3d9fy7of] deity, an entire aspect and storyline, depth and variety added to them.

She's FAR different from other gods. Elven deities have nothing of what Eilistraee stands for. She's unique to the realmsian drow, her fight for their freedom and to forge their own path and place in the world, to give them the happiness and freedom they were unjustly robbed of and to see them flourish and grow as a people is what defines her, not being a name to write in a character sheet. Her MO is not the same as other gods', she has a lot of value as a character other than as a distant deity. Eilistraee is closer to her people because she has a very specific goal and story as a character, a quest she would never give up and that is all about the drow. That's why no Selune or Corellon or any other can't replace her, they don't put their ''soul'' in this matter as she does (or don't even care, tbh).

Besides -once you allow drow as core PC- why deprive them of specific, flavourful options that are unique to the race just to replace it with standardized ones?

PS: Any drow with a bit of self-respect would never worship Corellon/any elven god, the same deities who had the genius idea to exile their whole race just 'cause [i:3d9fy7of]some[/i:3d9fy7of] of them (not even all) picked Lolth over him. He cast that curse punishing the a whole people for the errors of few, while after the Miyeritari dark elves -who were followers of his own 'beloved' daughter- were exterminated for the lulz by Aryvandaar, he did nothing about the gold elves, only punishing the Vyshaan dinasty (so much bias there). And they still refuses to do anything for the drow, not even rising a finger to help Eilistraee and even looking down upon them.