Pathfinder D20 system, AKA D&D 3.75

[Ra'Sona Races-The-Wind]

I was wondering, have any of the rest of you seen this? I've recently met a friend who showed me the Pathfinder game (by the same people who used to publish Dragon magazine) and to be honest? It's really good. A very effective follow-on from 3.5, though of course the names are all different where necessary.

Rangers now get 'specialist terrains,' so a ranger could be a city-ranger, a wood-ranger, a mountains-ranger, and HiPC works in said areas rather than just 'natural' environments. Sorcerers get 'bloodlines' now to explain the magical abilities they were born with. . .

I'm very pleased. <3

[Rhei Lor'akris]

I know of this new and neat alternative upgrade, as I have the free beta players handbook in pdf obtained from my Paizo account.

To me, it so far looks good, and I like what they did with the skill system.

[url=http://www.d20pfsrd.com/:22ayqu9e]There is a free SRD of the pathfinder rules here[/url:22ayqu9e]

[Talwyn Aureliano]

From all reports, PATHFINDER is the true successor to D&D 3.5 and is a remarkably good game system.

As I have ranted extensively elsewhere on the boiards, WotC have done the equivalant of setting their hair on fire when they shat out 4thEd

Its such a lame system that panders to the lowest common demoninator and players without any imagination.

Many dedicated D&D fans have abandonned the game and moved over to PAIZO's Pathfinder which is undisputable proof that WotC really screwed the pooch with 4thEd. Seriously, what company would deliberately go out with the intention of pissing off its loyal fan base? WotC did with such brilliance its almost operatic and absolutely epic as to the level of total FAIL they achieved with their abortion that is 4thEd.D&D [vomit]

bah...bollocks ta tha lot 'o 'em!

Besides, Paizo have stepped in and filled the niche [read yawning chasm] that WotC created and that is a good thing.

As for me, I'm now slowly collecting all the 2ndEd D&D gear as well as vintage 1st Ed modules/ These are bloody marvellous and can be bought cheaply at 2ndhand bookshops. There are some that are now collectors items and if you do you research, and buy cheaply, can make a nice like profit via selling them on Ebay. I don't though because the 1st & 2nd edition material, modules, books etc, are just good fun stuff and playing 2nd Ed D&D is really easier, IMO, than 3.5. Much less things to woory about. More focus on ADVENTURE than character building and making epic tanks via ludicris combinations of classes.


edit:

this is a copypasta from Encyclopedia Dramatica and it's their take on 4th Ed

http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Dungeo ... 26_Dragons


4th Edition Dungeons & Dragons [/size:2mwoc1d4]

[color=blue:2mwoc1d4]4th Ed Players' Expansion HandbookWorld of Warcraft was inspired by Dungeons & Dragons, limited by the fact that video games have limited choices involved. However, as WoW became popular and the limitless D&D was waning, [b:2mwoc1d4][u:2mwoc1d4]4th Edition was created to mimic a pen-and-paper version of WoW. [/u:2mwoc1d4][/b:2mwoc1d4]

The geniuses at Wizards of the Coast, who are keenly aware that retarded neckbeards will spend enormous quantities of cash to make sure they aren't pretending to be an awakened cat with an outdated set of rules, have made a killing by mimicking a copy of their original game.

Irony, anyone?

4th Edition promises many improvements over previous editions, including:

Swordman: A character type which emulates the combat-oriented character classes from World of Warcraft.

Spellman: A character type which emulates the offensive-spellcasting character classes from World of Warcraft.

Healman: A character type which emulates the defensive-spellcasting character classes from World of Warcraft.

Stealman: Your average lying troublemaker, mincing the thief-class from World of Warcraft

Gentlemen: Typically a rogue with a balisong.

...and the Monster Manual.Machineman: That's right, they made giant robots for this round, except they're all male eunuchs. Enjoy!

Dragonman: AKA Trogdor, a race designed for 13-year-old-boys who wish they were dragons. Also a power gamer race; banned from all campaigns.

Furfag: A template automatically added for free to any animal-based character type which grants the character access to a deviantART account.

Improved Protection from Poontang: An effect granted by ownership of any Dungeons & Dragons materials, this has been enhanced for 4th Edition. Clinically proven to preserve virginity.

Free can of Neckbeard Growth Ointment with purchase of boxed set: Presumably, this is included to help turn non-players onto the hobby, since everyone knows the set of neckbeards is coextensive with the set of Dungeons & Dragons players.

Your character's abilities are based entirely on The stuff they own in this game. Buying Miniatures, new books, fancy dice costumes and other official D&D paraphernalia grants your character stat bonuses.

If you ever Loose your items your character (and pocketbook) are screwed. Not getting stuff for your character means you will not get past level one.[/color:2mwoc1d4]


and now here is their take on AD&D:


[color=blue:2mwoc1d4]
AD&D [/size:2mwoc1d4]

The only good edition where the classes were balanced. Notable differences between AD&D and other editions were:

You had a saving throw for everything. A saving throw for AIDS in the pool, a saving throw for seeing your mom naked and even a save for surviving a ressurection attempt.

Thac0

The only furries were low-level grunts for you to kill by the dozens.
Everything went off percentages so you could play easily even while high. [/color:2mwoc1d4]

-ahrm-




So in sumation, AD&D is the best version


'nuff said

[Argoth]

Tal, you read my mind with the character building part. Still, I didn't have that much in common with 2ed AD&D (actually the only contact I've had with that edition was through BG1, 2 and ToB and Icewind Dale) and that's it. Fortunately the character I always play (and I don't play that often, so it never gets old) is a very versatile character and can be anything or anyone, from a sharp crossbow sniper, to being quite nasty in combat and still have a chance to buff the party. The way I though of him is for him to be self-sufficient in all situations and be able NOT to depend on others. The bard is a wonderful class. And now, with Pathfinder, it's even greater fun. They pimped every single core class there was (maybe except the fighter, who was overstacked with fighting capabilities, but sucked at any other task) so that it's really worth to play one class characters all the way up to level 20. Sure, prestige classes do exist, but there are 8 or 10 of them, not 120 like in D&D 3,5ed.

And yet it still isn't a good system. The best, and easiest system I've come across so far is D6 Star Wars. Sure it was made for kids, that's why it's so easy, but damn, the DM has so many possibilities to modify the rules and adapt them to the story, the players can take their characters anywhere they want, giving any skills they want... Ah... It's nice...

[Talwyn Aureliano]

absoluetly Argoth. A simple gaming system is indeed the best because you don't get distracted by the minutiae of the rules etc and it allows for seemless play.

The 3rdEd and onwards, for me anyway, just never felt right. When WotC bought up D&D and decided to crate their own veresion of it, I thought, ok, that's a new way of playing the game. But I saw flaws in the system. Namely that certain class, which in Ed's 1 & 2, were restricted [ie; paladins being only human and multiclasses only demihumans etc] well this was now tossed aside and thus the powergamer was unleashed to build monster tank characters which in all sensibility, is ridiculous.

I like having restrictions that are in 2ndEd. There were some house rules we [the group I played with] incorporated such as paladins could be of other races but only if that race had lawful good gods. Multiclasses were still restricted to demihumans but level limits were ignored. It worked anyway because a mage/cleric/fighter needs an enormous amount of Exp to level up once they start hitting lv9 and above. so it's an effective brake on anyone seeking to make a potential tank. In addition, epic feats were only available after lv 16 and since most PC's had reired before then, no one ever really achieved them.

The problem I have with high lvel D&D is that the characters are often far too powerful and can pretty much slaughter/vaporise anything that opposes them. D&D is good when your character has a real chance of dying in the adventure. It makes every battle and decision crucial and thus enhances the game's enjoyment. IMO, the best levls for play are between 3 and 12. There's a whole range of monsters etc that are capable of being a challenge to a 12th lv party but once you go in level 13, the characters, especially wizards, start to become uber and its only bad luck or judgement that can kill off a PC.

I think Baldurs Gate 1 & 2 is the best example of this. In BG1 you start at level 1 and for the first map, its bloody scary There are bears that can kill your character with 1 hit! And Xvarts that will swarm over your n00b PC causing death in rapid fashion. This is teh fun bit! throughut the BG series, there are some really challenging combats that require a balanced party [ at least 2 warrior types, 1 thief/scout, 1 mage, 1 cleric and the last slot is whatever you fancy] and with that 6 PC party, you can have enormous amounts of fun.

IWD was also good but didn't have the same level of epic and immersive storyline that BG did. I never played Planescape but I have heard it was awesome.

Anyway, the point is the the 2ndEd system really shone in those games and is still a great P&P gaming system.

[Rhei Lor'akris]

I agree, simple systems such as D6 Starwars are the best I've experienced (having played a freighter captain with a crew from time to time).

I've only played two very brief games of 1st & 2nd edtion. It was long ago, and I didn't even know much of the rules. So I cannot make much of a persional assessment on experience in that field now shrouded in mist of ages past. In other words, I'm not old skool enough.

I guess that means you are akin to a Tree Ent, Tal (just to be sure, thats a good compliment right there)

[Argoth]

BG1 was most fun of all the series. The max of level... 8? I don't even remember, was a fun thing. I remember going over some 'bosses' over and over and over and sometimes the only reasonable thing to do was give each party member something to cast fireball with, specially when you had to encounter a group of bosses. The restrictions of race/class characters didn't work for me, so I was very excited to learn that my elf can be a bard. Still in computer games (in every single one I've played so far, ranging from BG 1 to NWN1 it's better to play a fighter or sorcerer over any other class. Maybe cleric would still work, but I've never tried it.

One thing is sure: making a PNP WoW out of D&D did far too much damage for anyone to handle.

On a side note, the Pathfinder setting and upgrades follow the same pimp-my-pc template. Remember the drow and noble drow templates I've posted somewhere on the forums? A drow is a drow and acts like one like in FR D&D, but a Noble Drow that has a CONSTANT [i:1oe4gog3]detect magic[/i:1oe4gog3] ability is a bit too much, not to mention the +4 dex, +2 int, +2 cha, -2 con modifiers and I don't recall any mention about level adjustment. Sure, for a drowphile like me it's always fun to see such improvements and I'd love to play a character like that, but damn, after level 8 you become a demigod with right combination of feats no matter what class you're dealing with!

It always bugged me that Sorcerers, Wizards, Fighters have low skill point values. Sure, a wizard has high Int so the modifier balances that loss, but a sorcerer is more of a wanderer and is actually closer to bards than wizards, so why has she such low values, while de facto she should have at least 4 SP + Int Mod to show that she can look after herself, providing her magic is Cha dependent, not Int dependent.

The classes aren't well balanced, the entire HP system is ridiculous to me (a sword is a sword for f.'s sake! it can still kill you if you're not wearing armor, not matter if you're level 1 or 15) That's why I fancy the SW D6 system. One hit can stun a pc, or kill outright. Or if you have a lightsaber, you can kill yourself and your party at the same time accidentally ! Ain't it grand? The same rule should apply to all games of this type: don't get hit, or you're a goner. You parry blows, dodge them if you're mobile enough, run if you have to, but not stand there simply you can take on 10 times more blows than a sorcerer does, even if the sorcerer has higher Con (which resembles physical attributes).

Still, I love the game.

[Talwyn Aureliano]

[quote="Rhei Lor'akris":3pjl9fwb]

I guess that means you are akin to a Tree Ent, Tal (just to be sure, [b:3pjl9fwb]thats a good compliment right there[/b:3pjl9fwb]) [/quote:3pjl9fwb]

absolutely!

An Ent is probably one of the most marveloous of creatures


[youtube:3pjl9fwb]kNL2L4zUep4[/youtube:3pjl9fwb]