Ilythiiri History for a D&D Newbie! ;-D

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Dragonessa
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Ilythiiri History for a D&D Newbie! ;-D

Post by Dragonessa »

OK, D&D newbie comment time! :angel: Don't everyone run screaming away now! :D

Now, regarding Ilythiiri history and Eilistraee's in general... It was my understanding (which is quite limited I admit) that the Ilythiiri were already dark-elves (ie dark skin). During the Crown wars they started messing with dark powers and were particularly brutal against their cousins. At the end of the war they turned into Drow due to some kind of wonky curse thing created by the other elfies and the good gods. Whatever the curse thing was, it was needed otherwise the regular elves would have lost to the Ilythiiri onslaught. At the end of the war the new "Drow" went underground and Lolth and both her children Eilistraee and Vhaerun (all with Corellon I assume) were cast out of Arvandor. (Corellon then seemed to need two regular elven goddesses to make up for his one Drow ex... AHEM :devil: ) Some time later, Lolth decided to help out the Drow. Then somehow, Eilistraee was exonerated and chose to stay down in some nasty lower plane to help out the Drow.

So, first off, am I remotely correct here? (Things get very confusing for me as there seem to be a million different versions in just as many books.) Second, how did Eilistraee get cleared of wrong doing? Third, is Corellon really as big of a loser as he seems?
:devil: :p
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Post by Talwyn Aureliano »

Hail & Well met Dragonessa :)

Welcome to the place.

In regards to Forgotten Realms lore, you are on the right track with what you've learned so far.

I can't point out any specific links here right now but I'm sure Shir'le will be able to guide you in the right direction.

One thing I could recommend is if you could get hold of a copy of FR2 "Drow of the Underdark" by Ed Greenwood. It's out of print now however I believe there'd be copies available via eBay or Amazon. This campaign suppliment is probably the most useful in regards to Drow history and lore. I'm not sure what WoTC are going to do with the Drow with the advent of 4thEd, yet even using an old 2ndEd D&D book is still useful for anyone planning a campaign or is just interested in the dark elves like we all are here ;)

EDIT:

I had a bit of a search and found this link to WoTC on their 3.5 Drow Source book

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dn ... ILC-RSSDND
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Re: Ilythiiri History for a D&D Newbie! ;-D

Post by Shir'le E. Illios »

[quote="Dragonessa":2owi5hjj]So, first off, am I remotely correct here? (Things get very confusing for me as there seem to be a million different versions in just as many books.)[/quote:2owi5hjj]
You’re close, but you got a few things wrong.

First off, the first thing that happened was Lolth and the other drow deities (Eilistraee and Vhaeraun, Ghaunadaur wasn’t technically a drow deity and Kiaransalee and Selvetarm didn’t exist yet) getting banished from Arvandor. This was because Lolth (then still known as Araushnee) led an army of “anti-Seldarine” against the elven deities (the Seldarine). Araushnee was made a demon and cast out, together with her son Vhaeraun who had aided her and her daughter Eilistraee who had unwittingly aided her and chose voluntary banishment for the good of the drow race. Araushnee renamed herself to Lolth and settled in the Abyss (in the Demonweb Pits to be precise) to establish her stronghold and become a deity again. Pretty much the only thing of consequence for the dark elves here is that Lolth had been given control of their destiny and that the dark elves had been given dark skin by Corellon Larethian as a way to honour the beauty of his wife and children.

For the dark elves things really start much later. When all the elves ended up on Toril they formed numerous civilizations, including Ilythiir (made up (mostly) of dark elves) and Miyeritar (also containing a good portion of dark elves next to green elves). But things went wrong between these civilizations and they had a number of huge wars, called the Crown Wars. What started them is unclear (some say that the dark elves were already evil by this point and secretly worked to start wars between the other elves), but the first move was Aryvandaar (another civilization mostly made up of gold elves I think) attacking Miyeritar. There would be five Crown Wars when all is said and done, taking several thousand years.

During this the Ilythiiri dark elves descended into evil by worshipping evil deities, particularly Ghaunadaur and Vhaeraun (Lolth was busy in the Abyss at the time; I think she surfaced somewhere during the Third or Fourth Crown War). Eilistraee worked to try and stop this evil (and I think she got a strong foothold with the Miyeritari dark elves). But her power was pretty much shattered when, during the Third Crown War, the Dark Disaster destroyed Miyeritar, killing many of her followers (it’s likely that the Aryvandaar high mages were responsible for this). The Ilythiiri dark elves struck back hard for this (during the Fourth Crown War), revealing the evil powers they got from their evil deities and thus exposing them as evil to the other elves. In response to this the elven priests and high mages used Corellon’s magic to the dark elves into drow and force them into the Underdark, banishing them. The Fifth and last Crown War erupted after they were banished (showing that elves don’t need dark elves to wage war :p ).

Some Lady Penitent spoilers
[hide:2owi5hjj]We’ve recently found out that what they did to banish the dark elves was most likely create faerzress, which in turn created the Underdark, and then bind the dark elves to faerzress to bind them to the Underdark and pull them in. Either way it seems that the elven high mages over-extended themselves (as they usually do) and they didn’t just banish the evil Ilythiiri dark elves, but all of them (including the surviving Miyeritari dark elves). We’ve also recently found out that part of what made the Ilythiiri evil in the first place was Lolth having some demon run experiments with the dark elves and infecting them with a demonic taint.[/hide:2owi5hjj]
The dark elves, driven underground, formed a new civilization in the great cavern of Bhaerynden after driving out the dwarf population. But their continual internal power struggles erupted with a number of great magical explosions and the cavern collapsed, forming the Great Rift. The drow scattered throughout the Underdark and formed the cities we know today (like Menzoberranzan). And it’d pretty much be like that for thousands of years until the present day where Lolth Silence, the subsequent war between the drow deities and the (coming) Spellplague are likely to change things around drastically (for one, half the drow deities are dead :p ).

Ok, that was a bit more detailed than I’d planned (and likely more detailed than you wanted to hear). Yet if you want even more detail you can find a [url=http://www.eilistraee.com/temple/drow_h ... p:2owi5hjj]detailed timeline here[/url:2owi5hjj].

[quote="Dragonessa":2owi5hjj]Second, how did Eilistraee get cleared of wrong doing?[/quote:2owi5hjj]
We're not sure. We're not even sure she has been. All we know that in 2[sup:2owi5hjj]nd[/sup:2owi5hjj] ed. AD&D she was considered banished and had her plane somewhere with a Norse god and in 3E D&D she suddenly was on good terms with all of the Seldarine and had moved back to Arvandor.

[quote="Dragonessa":2owi5hjj] Third, is Corellon really as big of a loser as he seems?
:devil: :p[/quote:2owi5hjj]
Well, I wouldn't call him a loser, he did defeat Gruumsh and all that after all. Maybe just a bit of a douche-bag. But then he is Eilistraee's father and she's still pretty much daddy's girl I think, so can't really say too much bad things about him. ;)

Also, it's not two but three goddesses in one who replaced Araushnee as Corellon's consort. Angharradh is a cmposite goddess made up of the goddesses Aerdrie Faenya, Hanali Selanil and Sehanine Moonbow. Yeah, I'm not quite sure how that works either. But Corellon must be doing something right with that many women apparently falling for him. :p


Love -x-x-x-

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Post by Dragonessa »

[quote="Talwyn Aureliano":1rhmn3fx]

I had a bit of a search and found this link to WoTC on their 3.5 Drow Source book

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dn ... ILC-RSSDND[/quote:1rhmn3fx]

Thanks! I'll be sure to check that out. :D
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Re: Ilythiiri History for a D&D Newbie! ;-D

Post by Dragonessa »

[quote="Shir'le E. Illios":1pt6wnvr]Ok, that was a bit more detailed than I’d planned (and likely more detailed than you wanted to hear). Yet if you want even more detail you can find a [url=http://www.eilistraee.com/temple/drow_h ... p:1pt6wnvr]detailed timeline here[/url:1pt6wnvr]. [/quote:1pt6wnvr] Actually that was just about the level of detail I was interested in. :angel: Plus, in all the time I've used the dictionary here I never had any idea you had a time-line like that. (Guess it helps to actually -look- around a website occasionally.) Thanks!

I am glad to hear that they were dark from the beginning. Some places have hinted that they only turned dark -after- getting zonked by the elven magic.

The Miyeritar sound intriguing. I now recall hearing that the destruction of one Elven country really angered the Ilythiiri but I didn't know that country had dark elves in it as well. Is there any info on what happened to them specifically? Are their descendants perhaps the ones that ended up with Eilistraee maybe? :D

[quote="Shir'le E. Illios":1pt6wnvr]
...Also, it's not two but three goddesses in one who replaced Araushnee as Corellon's consort. Angharradh is a cmposite goddess made up of the goddesses Aerdrie Faenya, Hanali Selanil and Sehanine Moonbow. Yeah, I'm not quite sure how that works either. But Corellon must be doing something right with that many women apparently falling for him.[/quote:1pt6wnvr]

Oh no! I thought he was bad in when it was just 2! :devil: I'm still sticking by the idea that he needs all the new girls just to make up for the one "dark" one. :angel:
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Re: Ilythiiri History for a D&D Newbie! ;-D

Post by Alak Xiltyn »

[quote="Dragonessa":bj054my3]

[quote="Shir'le E. Illios":bj054my3]
...Also, it's not two but three goddesses in one who replaced Araushnee as Corellon's consort. Angharradh is a cmposite goddess made up of the goddesses Aerdrie Faenya, Hanali Selanil and Sehanine Moonbow. Yeah, I'm not quite sure how that works either. But Corellon must be doing something right with that many women apparently falling for him.[/quote:bj054my3]

Oh no! I thought he was bad in when it was just 2! :devil: I'm still sticking by the idea that he needs all the new girls just to make up for the one "dark" one. :angel:[/quote:bj054my3]

actually it's just one... and yet three... kinda... I think they decided to follow the Gaelic tradition of a triune goddess, which is to say 3 that are 1.
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Re: Ilythiiri History for a D&D Newbie! ;-D

Post by Dragonessa »

[quote="Alak Xiltyn":3o0y6e6l]actually it's just one... and yet three... kinda... I think they decided to follow the Gaelic tradition of a triune goddess, which is to say 3 that are 1.[/quote:3o0y6e6l]

:devil:

Still, even if she (or they?) are a 3 in 1 goddess it sounds to me like he's having to overcompensate for losing Araushnee. :D Once you go dark elf.... :snickers: ;)

By the way, for yet another newbie question, how did all 3 of them end up in one in the first place?
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Re: Ilythiiri History for a D&D Newbie! ;-D

Post by Talwyn Aureliano »

[quote="Dragonessa":m86hv7ij]

:devil:

Still, even if she (or they?) are a 3 in 1 goddess it sounds to me like he's having to overcompensate for losing Araushnee. :D Once you go dark elf.... :snickers: ;)
[/quote:m86hv7ij]

Now that's funny :))

Once you go Dark Elf...you just can't control yourself! 8)
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Re: Ilythiiri History for a D&D Newbie! ;-D

Post by Shir'le E. Illios »

[quote="Dragonessa":1691mv6p]Plus, in all the time I've used the dictionary here I never had any idea you had a time-line like that. (Guess it helps to actually -look- around a website occasionally.) Thanks![/quote:1691mv6p]
To be fair the Temple isn't really linked anywhere yet (except here and there in the forums). That's mostly because it's pretty much devoid of information until someone actually takes the time to write in the details.

(Tries not to mention that this someone should probably be me :tear: )

[quote="Dragonessa":1691mv6p]I am glad to hear that they were dark from the beginning. Some places have hinted that they only turned dark -after- getting zonked by the elven magic.[/quote:1691mv6p]
I think the common thought at the moment is that they were dark-skinned before the Descent, but with the whole curse thing they actually turned black-skinned. Personally however I find it rather poor to take the "make your skin color reflect your evil heart" route and prefer to think that they were pretty much black to start with. But ah well, what can you do.

[quote="Dragonessa":1691mv6p]The Miyeritar sound intriguing. I now recall hearing that the destruction of one Elven country really angered the Ilythiiri but I didn't know that country had dark elves in it as well. Is there any info on what happened to them specifically? Are their descendants perhaps the ones that ended up with Eilistraee maybe? :D[/quote:1691mv6p]
What's written in the timeline is pretty much all I know regarding the Dark Disaster. In the latest novels there's some talk that might indicate that the Eilistraeens are Miyeritari elves and 'cleansed' Ilythiiri elves, but at the same time it's also clear that both still live in the Underdark under Lolth's rule (and most of them have at least some trace of the Ilythiiri taint).

[quote="Dragonessa":1691mv6p]By the way, for yet another newbie question, how did all 3 of them end up in one in the first place?[/quote:1691mv6p]
The way the story tells it it's something along the lines of the following. Araushnee and the anti-Seldarine attacked the Seldarine. Eilistraee defended the Seldarine, but she had arrows enchanted by Araushnee and one of them struck Corellon Larethian (possibly killing him or near enough) just as the Seldarine had won. And the three goddesses became one to bring him back again. Or something along those lines.


Love -x-x-x-

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Additional Information Regarding Drow History

Post by Olath Killian »

(This is my first post, great site and forum by the way).

Please correct me if I am wrong, but before the Crown Wars occurred, the Dark Elves in general worshipped Vhaerun and Ghaundahar. These gods were widely worshipped by the Illythri and had a strong following in Faerun. Lolth was not really worshipped much as she was content to rule in the Abyss. It has been hinted that Eilistraee's faith made progress with the Illythri of Miyeritar which was why they were seen as her worshippers in the Lady Pentient Series but were banished with all the Dark Elves.

However, Lolth's interest was piqued when a Cleric of the Seldarine battled her way into the Abyss and rescued her friend/lover. As a result, Lolth decided to get back at the Seldarine by trying to become a goddess once again. She knew by the Edict of the Seldarine, Evil Gods and Goddesses could not step foot On Evermeet, but nothing about mortals. Therefore she decided to become the patron Goddess of the Illythri in order to invade Evermeet in order to destroy what she was not permiited to touch.

Afterwards, she spied Ka'narlist the ruler of the Illythri city of Attornash (spelling) and took him as her first consort.

Shortly thereafter, the Gold and Moon Elves decided to cast the Epic High Magic spell, the Sundering which created the isle of Evermeet (I believe this was around -17000). This casting had great consequences as it killed many Elves which included the Dark Elves and leveled communites including the powerful Dark Elven city of Attornash. Lolth's first consort Ka'Narlist died in the aftermath as well. Lolth did not concern herself with this too much, since for every follower of hers that died, 3 of Vhaerun and Ghaundahr died as well, thereby weakening their faiths. This enabled Lolth to become more powerful among the Dark Elves since her faithful were now on-par (if not more) with the other

As a side note, since the Gold Elves of Aryvandaar were involved with the casting of the "Expulsion of the Dark Elves" and they started the Crown Wars to annex Miyeritar, they may have included all Dark Elves (to get rid of them in Miyeritar) instead of the evil Dark Elves.

Much of this information can be found in the Book: Evermeet, isle of the Elves from Lisa Smedman.
Last edited by Olath Killian on Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Argoth »

Interesting news. Never knew. And welcome to this place! May it became a home for you.
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Re: Ilythiiri History for a D&D Newbie! ;-D

Post by Dragonessa »

[quote="Shir'le E. Illios":165ozjbz]
I think the common thought at the moment is that they were dark-skinned before the Descent, but with the whole curse thing they actually turned black-skinned. Personally however I find it rather poor to take the "make your skin color reflect your evil heart" route and prefer to think that they were pretty much black to start with. But ah well, what can you do.[/quote:165ozjbz]

I agree about the dark skin matching the evil soul thing. I'd much prefer to think of them as always being as dark as they are now.

[quote="Olath Killian":165ozjbz]
As a side note, since the Gold Elves of Aryvandaar were involved with the casting of the "Expulsion of the Dark Elves" and they started the Crown Wars to annex Miyeritar, they may have included all Dark Elves (to get rid of them in Miyeritar) instead of the evil Dark Elves. [/quote:165ozjbz]

Those tricky elves! I knew they were no good deep inside! :D

Now that I've got a better handle on the actual events, I tend to prefer the sensationalized Drow version. :devil: Fortunately the Drow versions I've read so far don't mention Eilistraee specifically which suits me fine. Out of them all Eilistraee is my favorite. It's just a grand shame her dad has to be Corellon. :angel:
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Re: Additional Information Regarding Drow History

Post by Bhaern Quel »

[quote="Olath Killian":29lta3yb](This is my first post, great site and forum by the way).

Please correct me if I am wrong,[/quote:29lta3yb]
you are wrong[quote:29lta3yb] but before the Crown Wars occurred, the Dark Elves in general worshipped Vhaerun and Ghaundahar. These gods were widely worshipped by the Illythri and had a strong following in Faerun. Lolth was not really worshipped much as she was content to rule in the Abyss. It has been hinted that Eilistraee's faith made progress with the Illythri of Miyeritar which was why they were seen as her worshippers in the Lady Pentient Series but were banished with all the Dark Elves.

However, Lolth's interest was piqued when a Cleric of the Seldarine battled her way into the Abyss and rescued her friend/lover. As a result, Lolth decided to get back at the Seldarine by trying to become a goddess once again. She knew by the Edict of the Seldarine, Evil Gods and Goddesses could not step foot On Evermeet, but nothing about mortals. Therefore she decided to become the patron Goddess of the Illythri in order to invade Evermeet in order to destroy what she was not permiited to touch.

Afterwards, she spied Ka'narlist the ruler of the Illythri city of Attornash (spelling) and took him as her first consort.

Shortly thereafter, the Gold and Moon Elves decided to cast the Epic High Magic spell, the Sundering which created the isle of Evermeet (I believe this was around -17000). This casting had great consequences as it killed many Elves which included the Dark Elves and leveled communites including the powerful Dark Elven city of Attornash. Lolth's first consort Ka'Narlist died in the aftermath as well. Lolth did not concern herself with this too much, since for every follower of hers that died, 3 of Vhaerun and Ghaundahr died as well, thereby weakening their faiths. This enabled Lolth to become more powerful among the Dark Elves since her faithful were now on-par (if not more) with the other

As a side note, since the Gold Elves of Aryvandaar were involved with the casting of the "Expulsion of the Dark Elves" and they started the Crown Wars to annex Miyeritar, they may have included all Dark Elves (to get rid of them in Miyeritar) instead of the evil Dark Elves.

Much of this information can be found in the Book: Evermeet, isle of the Elves from Lisa Smedman.[/quote:29lta3yb]

Oh Lisa has a poor track record as to knowing Drow, so perhaps I can avoid point by point.

Rules is what is canon is last print, with posible exception of source book a little sooner then novel (in that case source book rules).

The Sundering based on most recent print (and older) occured long before the Crown wars, the Illythri started to turn to lolth and darker deities during the 2nd Crown War. Maybe I should pull it apart, however the Grand History of the realms is the current History of the Realms no matter what you have read. With August comong and new FRCS the history might change again.
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Re:

Post by Olath Killian »

Ok, sorry about that, I had not realized that FR novels were the last before the Source Books.
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Re:

Post by Bhaern Quel »

[quote="Olath Killian":28fd9ryh]Ok, sorry about that, I had not realized that FR novels were the last before the Source Books.[/quote:28fd9ryh]
Well novels tend to be second (depending on date) to source, some times we look back to 1st Edition FR though most of that has been written over.
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