[quote="Shir'le E. Illios":1vmtba78][quote="Sancha":1vmtba78][quote="Alak Xiltyn":1vmtba78]Personally I like having the Drow as the archetypal evil Elves but when you REALLY look at it even in 3/3.5 the Drow aren't really elves.[/quote:1vmtba78]
Yes we are. We are elves. And we have far more in common with the Ar-Tel-Quessir than most elves are willing to admit.
Would you say that the people of Zhentil Keep or Amn are 'not really human'?
![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/drow_wink.gif)
[/quote:1vmtba78]
I agree that drow are definitely elves in 3E. However, it's also true that most people have been treating them pretty much as a separate race (including them having a separate pantheon and everything). It seems that them being elves is more a technicality than anything else.
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I understand when characters in the Realms treat Drow as a separate race rather than a different type of elf (and even totally expect them to believe we are a seperate race) -- in character, it totally makes sense. But as a DM and player, I know the only reason they even do have a seperate pantheon in Aber-Toril is because Correllon banished his consort and their two children from the elven pantheon. That's not really a sign that they're worshippers are a separate race.
[quote="Shir'le E. Illios":1vmtba78]
As such I also agree with Silke: ability wise they're far enough removed from elves that they could be considered a separate race. Heck, they're more different from elves than any of the other base races (stat/ability-wise).
[/quote:1vmtba78]
A seperate subrace is all I consider them. They're not that unlike other elven subraces. Drow aren't any further removed from the base PHB elf than Lythari Elves, Sea Elves or Avariel Elves are, for example. All four of the 'exotic' elven subraces get everything the base Elf gets, with a few extra abilities on top of that to set them apart as a Subrace. Their Ability adjustments aren't all identical, but they're similar to those the base elf and the other four FR subraces get (usually a bonus to two stats and a penalty to one)
In fact, that difference is what makes it clearly and truly elven-- all 8 of the elven subraces in the FR setting have different Ability Score adjustments from each other. But they are similar. Base elf is +2 Dex, -2 Con. The FR subraces almost ALL have -2 Con and +2 to Dex or another stat (though one or two of the stronger, wilder subraces get -2 to Wis or Int and Cha instead) and most of the FR subraces have one or two other abilities with an adjustment.
Silver elves get the standard PHB elf's +2 Dex, -2 Con. Gold elves get +2 Int, -2 Con. Green Elves get +2 Dex, -2 Int. Copper Elves get +2 Str, +2 Dex, -2 Con, -2 Int, -2 Cha.
Sea Elves get +2 Dex, -2 Int.
Dark elves get +2 to Dex, -2 to Con, +2 Int, +2 Cha. Same as the Base elf and Moon elf, with two extra ability bonuses.
Winged elves get +4 Dex, -2 Con, +2 Int, +2 Wis.
The secretive and exotic 8th FR subrace gets similar bonuses to the Drow (Dark elves) and Avariel (Winged elves), with 3 stats getting a bonus, but like the Avariel, some get more than just +2.
There's 4 'exotic' subraces in the FR, but they all get a level adjustment for having better ability scores and a couple extra bonuses. But none are really a completely separate race. They get all the base racial traits of the standard elf, and a couple Extrodianary Abilities. Some of them get different racial weapon proficiencies, sure, but all elves get some basic weapon proficiencies (ie swapping base elf's longsword for scimitar or trident, or longbows and shortbows for crossbows or harpoons or spears.) That's a minor difference.
The biggest differences aren't necessarily in the Drow. Sea Elves have gills. Avariel have hollow bones and wings, and superior senses. Lythari can shapeshift. If none of them are a separate race, why could Drow be condsidered so? 3 lame spell like abilities and decent spell resistance aren't as far a stretch from the main trunk of the Elf-tree as having gills or wings or alternate forms is.
[quote="Shir'le E. Illios":1vmtba78]
The question would be, of course, what would truly separating them as a race do to the background? One of the fun things with drow has always been the various different approaches to them being elves (and, originally, not really any different from the other elven subraces). If drow become a separate race it's not going to make it easier for Eilistraeens to convince others to return to the surface (as they've been a bit 'return to the way things were' with regards to their racial heritage). Not saying that that's a bad thing (from a player's perspective), just that it changes things.
Love -x-x-x-
Shir'le[/quote:1vmtba78]
That is a VERY good question, Shir'le. Personally, I'm not sure I could buy into it if all that wonderful background was removed without a really good explanation. But even if they do come up with some way to reconcile such a change and departure from the rich background, I'll be missing out on a lot of the things I enjoy most about playing surface drow. And yeah, it's definitely going to be harder to convince other drow to return to the Night Above without being able to play on the racial heritage. Even with it, it's usually a difficult task!
Sancha's having a heck of a time in my current campaign with exactly that right now, and she's playing the 'reclaiming our racial heritage and ancestral rights' card for all it's worth-- it's practically the only ammo she's got! lol Trying to convince underdark drow from a comfortable, wealthy city to settle on the harsh, miserable surface is a pretty hard and daunting task already-- but it's one of the challenges I enjoy about playing a surface drow.
What I'd miss far more would be the hope of redemption from the Seldarine that removing the background would take away. If drow are no longer a type of elf, there's definitely not going to be any remote hope of earning your way into Aryvandor... whether personal or racial redemption, it's one of the cool things I really like, and it's only because the drow are cursed, exiled elves that it exists.
[Edit: fixed a spelling error]