Drow in Baldur's Gate 3

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Shir'le E. Illios
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Drow in Baldur's Gate 3

Post by Shir'le E. Illios »

I've been closely following the development of Baldur's Gate 3 and already knew that you will be able to play a drow in it. Today I got an update from Larian (the developers) which talks a little more about character creation in the game with the following blurp on the drow racial choice:
Drow

Seldarine Drow
Drow are the result of an ancient schism between the elven deities Corellon Larethian and Lolth. The latters’ treachery drove the drow into the Underdark, where they splintered into warring factions. Seldarine drow can be found seeking allies from all over Faerûn, aiming to settle their conflict with Lolth - and each other - by any means necessary.

Lolth-Sworn Drow
Raised by Lolth’s cult in the city of Menzoberranzan, these drow extol the virtues of their corrupt and merciless goddess. Lolth marks her followers with bright red eyes so the Underdark will learn to fear drow on sight.

Image
Seldarine Drow? Is that a 5E thing? Not Eilistraeen Drow or such? Maybe it's the same thing; sounds very similar at least. Maybe they didn't want to impose a choice of religion in the name (then again, they did with Lolth instead of calling them "Underdark Drow" or such and leaving it open for the player to choose from other drow deities... I mean not all drow cities are dedicated to Lolth the way Menzo is).

Also still think that the drow skin tone is too light. Maybe there's a way to mod that and add some darker skin tones. Or maybe they'll have darker skin tones available. Will have to see.

Still, I'm very happy that there's an official option to play a drow character (where in the previous BG games I just played an elf with black skin).

Early Access starts October 6th (I might have a looksee, but won't seriously play the game until release).


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Re: Drow in Baldur's Gate 3

Post by Irennan »

The only thing 5e introduces about the drow are Corellon's blessed. They're normal drow, but can change sex at will. They're introduced in the MToF book, the very same book that retcons a bunch of stuff about elven lore, and while it has a part dedicated to Eilistraee, it focuses on telling you how irrelevant she is, without even telling you anything about what she stands for.

Anyway, it doesn't look like these Seldarine drow are the Corellon's blessed, though, and they're very different from the Eilistraeans anyway. Eilistraee's people aren't a bunch of outcasts without identity other than "we don't like Lolth"--and I mean, it doesn't even make sense for them to be. They descend from the survivors of a flourishing nation, with a strong set of beliefs and cultural heritage, who have stayed over the millennia. They have converts yes, but they aren't made up mostly of converts; they're their own culture.

I would love to be proven dead wrong, but I won't expect WotC to let anyone bring Eilistraee to the attention of the larger public. All their talk about nuance in the drow has led to nothing up to now. In fact, they're still overlooking/downplaying their *one* good *culture* in favor of this. The very idea that you need to go to such lengths and introduce a friggin sub-subrace for the drow to be good, because normal drow are just Lolth (and apparently can never leave Lolth, otherwise you could have Seldarine drow with red eyes), is so hypocritical to their statement, and it makes no sense in FR lore.

Then again, non-Lolthite warring factions, working to settle their conflict with Lolth *and each other*... maybe "Seldarine drow" are actually the "Dark Seldarine drow"? I certainly hope so.
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Re: Drow in Baldur's Gate 3

Post by Bhaern Quel »

The latters’ treachery drove the drow into the Underdark, where they splintered into warring factions. Seldarine drow can be found seeking allies from all over Faerûn, aiming to settle their conflict with Lolth - and each other - by any means necessary.
Clearly appears to indicate the Dark Seldarine to me.

There should be no Eilistraee Drow seeking to conflict with Drow. Oh fight we will if must, however if we can lead to the surface in peace that is our goal.
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Re: Drow in Baldur's Gate 3

Post by Irennan »

Bhaern Quel wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:41 pm
The latters’ treachery drove the drow into the Underdark, where they splintered into warring factions. Seldarine drow can be found seeking allies from all over Faerûn, aiming to settle their conflict with Lolth - and each other - by any means necessary.
Clearly appears to indicate the Dark Seldarine to me.

There should be no Eilistraee Drow seeking to conflict with Drow. Oh fight we will if must, however if we can lead to the surface in peace that is our goal.
It's a general statement--basically, they include all drow who don't worship Lolth in that. Eilistraeans obviously don't seek conflict with other drow, but they do actively target slavers and the likes, which Vhaeraunites and Lolthites can be.

But I really hope it's Dark Seldarine drow, and not drow who kiss Corellon's ass. I'm not intentioned to play this game, for many reasons, but the possibility to play an Eilistraean might get me to buy it and try it out.
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Re: Drow in Baldur's Gate 3

Post by Shir'le E. Illios »

As I said I'll have a look when it's in early access (which should be tomorrow iirc). Am planning to get this game regardless. So I'll let you know what I find. Though not holding my breath on anything Eilistraee related. Just thought it odd that they mention Corellon Larethian and call them "Seldarine drow".


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Re: Drow in Baldur's Gate 3

Post by Leema Har'gachi »

Well, it is nice to actually have the option to be a drow finally.... but, well... From this little teaser of what they are doing with the Drow in game, kind of seem like something Wizard might have mandated them to do. They have really hated the other drow deities for a long while now and having "seldarine" drow does seem like WOTC trying to avoid mentioning the other Drow deities. If anything they should have named the drow Options after the two drow nation, it would kind of make better sense. You would literally be a descendant from one of the two nation. But, that is my opinion. On a side note I have been playing the Enhanced Edition from GOG of the Original Baldur's Gate, I'm not to far into the game (classes have been keeping me busy, plus I spent quit some time stealing from everyone and everything in candlekeep then restarting the character with everything he had). Still level one though.
CODENAME:Leema
Real Name:Leema Apollyon Har'gachi
Class:Variant Illusionist Favored Soul {gestalt}
Race:Shadow Drow
Height:5'8"
Weight:158 Ib.
Hair:Yellowish
Eyes:Purple(pinwheel)
Skin:Pitch-black(surrounded by Shadowy Purple Aura)
Deity:Eilistraee
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Re: Drow in Baldur's Gate 3

Post by Irennan »

Leema Har'gachi wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:58 pm Well, it is nice to actually have the option to be a drow finally.... but, well... From this little teaser of what they are doing with the Drow in game, kind of seem like something Wizard might have mandated them to do. They have really hated the other drow deities for a long while now and having "seldarine" drow does seem like WOTC trying to avoid mentioning the other Drow deities. If anything they should have named the drow Options after the two drow nation, it would kind of make better sense. You would literally be a descendant from one of the two nation. But, that is my opinion. On a side note I have been playing the Enhanced Edition from GOG of the Original Baldur's Gate, I'm not to far into the game (classes have been keeping me busy, plus I spent quit some time stealing from everyone and everything in candlekeep then restarting the character with everything he had). Still level one though.
I would like the option to play a descendant of Ilythiir or Miyeritar, but keep in mind that even in Ilythiir, the vast majority of drow was made up of common farmers or workers, who likely didn't have anything to do with demon pacts or whatever, so they'd be careful to not make Ilythiir=evil and Miyeritar=good. If anything--and this too would be a stretch--they could make Miyeritari be close to Eilistraee, their patroness, Ilythiiri be close to Vhaeraun, the main patron of Ilythiir (and Vhaeraun has neutral followers as well), then have the Lolthsworn or whatever they call it.

But even NWN did the drow better than this. The drow weren't playable and you just had the elf race, but Bioware let you even side with the followers of Eilistraee in their expansion, and fight alongside them.
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Re: Drow in Baldur's Gate 3

Post by Shir'le E. Illios »

Quick update. I've bought the game but haven't been able to play it yet (hangs on a black screen when starting). It's early access, bugs are to be expected. This morning forumites found a very weird work-around for it (press-and-hold shift while right-clicking the executable and select "run as admin" which weirdly enough works), but haven't had a chance to look past the main menu yet.

I'm also not planning to do a full playthrough until the game officially releases, so might not run into any "how they handle drow" issues regardless.


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Re: Drow in Baldur's Gate 3

Post by Irennan »

Shir'le E. Illios wrote: Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:12 am Quick update. I've bought the game but haven't been able to play it yet (hangs on a black screen when starting). It's early access, bugs are to be expected. This morning forumites found a very weird work-around for it (press-and-hold shift while right-clicking the executable and select "run as admin" which weirdly enough works), but haven't had a chance to look past the main menu yet.

I'm also not planning to do a full playthrough until the game officially releases, so might not run into any "how they handle drow" issues regardless.


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Some people said that Eilistraee is one of the deities whom you can choose as a cleric, and that already pleasantly exceeds my expectations. Though the name choice of "Seldarine drow" is still weird (the perceived need to add a sub-subrace to not be evil too), and--since they said that being a drow will lead to specific interactions--it remains to be seen if any Dark Seldarine aside from Lolth will be acknowledged in game. But still, better than I thought.
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Re: Drow in Baldur's Gate 3

Post by Shir'le E. Illios »

Had a brief look at character creation and the opening area. Here's a screeny from character creation:

Image

Couple of things to note there.

First, that's pretty much the darkest skintone that I could find. It's part of the default skintone selection for drow (you can also expand to allow all skintones). That inset is the same skintone ingame (different hairstyle), which is properly black. Looks properly drow to me, so I'm quite happy. :)

Hair colour is pretty much the lightest white I could find.

[EDIT] Forgot to mention: Seldarine drow get purple eye colour as a selection (and little else), Lolth-sworn drow get only red (three shades). Though here too you can expand to allow all colours so you can have any eye colour that you want.

Found a tattoo of a down-turned sword for the throat. That's... pretty much an Eilistraeen pendant as a tattoo. It's hard to see above because I chose black as the colour for the tattoo (there's a couple of choices, though many are hard to see against the black skin). Ingame it's pretty much entirely invisible. Could've picked with or grey, but didn't want it to stand out to much.

Clerics (and clerics only as far as I could tell) get a choice of deity and, as you can see, Eilistraee is one of the options. What's even more interesting is that she's the only drow deity option I saw (no Lolth either). Along with a host of expected deities (Selûne, Corellan Lerathian, Bhaal, lots of others). If you pick a Lolth-sworn drow, however, you only get one choice: Lolth. Cute touch.

The description for Eilistraee reads: "Eilistraee is the goddess of good-aligned drow, beauty, song, and freedom. The Dark maiden desires balance between all races, and struggles against her mother Lolth's corrupt aims."

During what little I played of the game I once got a "[DROW]" dialog option (when I couldn't free someone could say something like how she might as well be stuck in the Demonwebs or such). Didn't make much difference then, but I imagine there might be options later in the game where it does.

Game is, expectedly, still quite buggy. Next to the startup crashes none of the dialog voiceovers worked for me. And once I left the beginning area there was absolutely nothing there to interact with (no enemies, no npcs, no things to loot except for one dead fisherman, etc). But the game does show a lot of promise (I recommend waiting until release if you're interested in playing). It does feel like a modern D&D CRPG to me. Dice rolls and everything.


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Re: Drow in Baldur's Gate 3

Post by Irennan »

The game looks pretty cool if you ask me. Thanks for sharing, Shir'le.
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Re: Drow in Baldur's Gate 3

Post by Irennan »

Someone posted a datamine of the upcoming paladin options. Apparently, they didn't go for the 5e oaths, and tied each paladin subclass to a deity. Seems that Eilistraee gets her own subclass. I'm... surprised that this is happening, tbh. I thought WotC was going to disregard her forever. Though I'm kinda wary, as I fear another grossly smearing portrayal of her, Smedman-style.

https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/c ... ame_files/
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Re: Drow in Baldur's Gate 3

Post by Shir'le E. Illios »

Hmm, now there's an interesting option. Playing a paladin of Eilistraee (I've been considering what class I'd want to play). Definitely different from what I usually play.

Not entirely sure how valuing law really fits with Eilistraee. But a Darksong Knight, Oath of the Ancients Paladin of Eilistraee does sound like a fun character to play.

Image

(Image from Oakthorne)


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Re: Drow in Baldur's Gate 3

Post by Irennan »

5e Paladins aren't tied to lawful alignment, and Oath of the Ancients is basically Eilistraee's teachings but paraphrased, so yeah.
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Re: Drow in Baldur's Gate 3

Post by Shir'le E. Illios »

I was referring to the class description in the Reddit post you linked: "They value loyalty and the law" :)

It's my understanding that alignments are very much downplayed in 5E anyway.


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