Ascendency of the Last
Moderators: Shir'le E. Illios, Bhaern Quel
-
Alediran Tir'ent
- Maid
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:27 pm
-
Thalon Mercrow
- Resident
- Posts: 450
- Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:41 am
-
Bhaern Quel
- Demigod
- Posts: 2361
- Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:32 pm
[quote="Thalon Mercrow":t0g0401w]why do i get the feeling that the only reson this forum and the others like it only exsist to vent our collective anger.[/quote:t0g0401w]
This thread might be for that, however the forum existed far longer then the recent news about what WotC did to the realms.
The Goddess lives and will continue to live.
This thread might be for that, however the forum existed far longer then the recent news about what WotC did to the realms.
The Goddess lives and will continue to live.
-
Thalon Mercrow
- Resident
- Posts: 450
- Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:41 am
Well why not?
[quote="Thalon Mercrow":396qabck]why do i get the feeling that the only reson this forum and the others like it only exsist to vent our collective anger.[/quote:396qabck]
You say that like it's a bad thing. Why shouldn't we vent, given what has happened? We have every right.
You say that like it's a bad thing. Why shouldn't we vent, given what has happened? We have every right.
In the end, only kindness matters.
-
Thalon Mercrow
- Resident
- Posts: 450
- Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:41 am
-
Shir'le E. Illios
- High Priestess
- Posts: 2352
- Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 9:51 pm
- Location: Eilistraee.com
- Contact:
Well said to both Isis9 and Fire_Wraith; I quite agree with most of what you're saying here. 
[quote="Narsia Ny'Dhun":9px3mle3]The deal behind the challenge was that someone had to die, and they made that deal under the eye of AO who surpasses all gods.[/quote:9px3mle3]
True, but who says that the game is finished or needs to be finished? As I recall there wasn't any time limit posed on the game, just that at the end of the game one of them will be dead... but that was kinda a given anyway. I was, however, expecting the game to end in a million years or so.
Eilistraee being alive doesn't violate the rules of the game, it just says that the game isn't finished yet.
Not that I'd expect WotC to play it like that at all.
[quote="Aelistae":9px3mle3]The sad thing is that with what's being done to FR I fear they'll soon discontinue the campaign. ...Or maybe that isn't so sad, given the poor job that Hasbro have done in their attempt to keep it alive.[/quote:9px3mle3]
Well, it's close to that. With 4E they're doing a new thing where they're only publishing three books for each setting: a campaign source, a player guide and an adventure (thus really only two since adventures don't count). They'll probably continue to try and sell novels in the setting as well as publish articles in their online magazine and such, but they're not doing much beyond that with the setting.
And since those books probably just rehash how things are in the new ruleset (which is pretty useless background-wise anyway) it seems pretty discontinued to me.
In fact, their new Realms are really another setting altogether that's borrowing a number of things from 'our' Forgotten Realms. Just not the good things.
Love -x-x-x-
Shir'le
[quote="Narsia Ny'Dhun":9px3mle3]The deal behind the challenge was that someone had to die, and they made that deal under the eye of AO who surpasses all gods.[/quote:9px3mle3]
True, but who says that the game is finished or needs to be finished? As I recall there wasn't any time limit posed on the game, just that at the end of the game one of them will be dead... but that was kinda a given anyway. I was, however, expecting the game to end in a million years or so.
Eilistraee being alive doesn't violate the rules of the game, it just says that the game isn't finished yet.
Not that I'd expect WotC to play it like that at all.
[quote="Aelistae":9px3mle3]The sad thing is that with what's being done to FR I fear they'll soon discontinue the campaign. ...Or maybe that isn't so sad, given the poor job that Hasbro have done in their attempt to keep it alive.[/quote:9px3mle3]
Well, it's close to that. With 4E they're doing a new thing where they're only publishing three books for each setting: a campaign source, a player guide and an adventure (thus really only two since adventures don't count). They'll probably continue to try and sell novels in the setting as well as publish articles in their online magazine and such, but they're not doing much beyond that with the setting.
And since those books probably just rehash how things are in the new ruleset (which is pretty useless background-wise anyway) it seems pretty discontinued to me.
In fact, their new Realms are really another setting altogether that's borrowing a number of things from 'our' Forgotten Realms. Just not the good things.
Love -x-x-x-
Shir'le
-= Shir'le E. Illios =-
Chosen of Eilistraee
-
Fire_Wraith
- Maid
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 7:00 am
If I understand correctly, under the terms of the contract by which Ed Greenwood licensed the Forgotten Realms first to TSR, and then to WoTC, if WoTC ever drops the Forgotten Realms, control of it will revert back to Ed.
However, a number of things have been suggested as reasons why this would be unlikely. Essentially, there are just too many valuable properties associated with the name. The large majority of the computer games released to date have been set in the Forgotten Realms. While there are novels featuring all of the major campaign worlds, the Realms are also home to the Drizzt books, which have considerably more visibility (I would assess) than most others. The brand itself has a certain value, and they are attempting to maintain the use of that.
Thus, we see an attempt to radically remake the Realms into whatever new world they want it to be. To me, (and likely the majority of posters here,) they attempted to push a square peg into a round hole, and decided to chop off corners repeatedly until the result was largely unrecognizeable to us - and worse, had the most interesting features of it removed.
Me? I'm going to pick up those pieces they discarded that I liked, and go back to doing what I used to do - creating my own game worlds. I'll take what I like and use that, whether it's themes, NPCs, deities, places, or adventures.
They don't want to use Eilistraee anymore - so she, and the religion, reverts to those who do - the fans.
However, a number of things have been suggested as reasons why this would be unlikely. Essentially, there are just too many valuable properties associated with the name. The large majority of the computer games released to date have been set in the Forgotten Realms. While there are novels featuring all of the major campaign worlds, the Realms are also home to the Drizzt books, which have considerably more visibility (I would assess) than most others. The brand itself has a certain value, and they are attempting to maintain the use of that.
Thus, we see an attempt to radically remake the Realms into whatever new world they want it to be. To me, (and likely the majority of posters here,) they attempted to push a square peg into a round hole, and decided to chop off corners repeatedly until the result was largely unrecognizeable to us - and worse, had the most interesting features of it removed.
Me? I'm going to pick up those pieces they discarded that I liked, and go back to doing what I used to do - creating my own game worlds. I'll take what I like and use that, whether it's themes, NPCs, deities, places, or adventures.
They don't want to use Eilistraee anymore - so she, and the religion, reverts to those who do - the fans.
-
Bhaern Quel
- Demigod
- Posts: 2361
- Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:32 pm
[quote="Fire_Wraith":2x982tmz]If I understand correctly, under the terms of the contract by which Ed Greenwood licensed the Forgotten Realms first to TSR, and then to WoTC, if WoTC ever drops the Forgotten Realms, control of it will revert back to Ed.[/quote:2x982tmz]
More correctly if Ed does not receieve one book contact a year, or agrees to waive writting one (with most likely money payment control of Realms revert to him.[quote:2x982tmz]
However, a number of things have been suggested as reasons why this would be unlikely. Essentially, there are just too many valuable properties associated with the name. The large majority of the computer games released to date have been set in the Forgotten Realms. While there are novels featuring all of the major campaign worlds, the Realms are also home to the Drizzt books, which have considerably more visibility (I would assess) than most others. The brand itself has a certain value, and they are attempting to maintain the use of that.
[/quote:2x982tmz]
It appears Ed does not want control back either, because of the complexitivity of the Realms. The number of people that wrote for it would require a business from ground up to handle royalities, organise canon and so on.
More correctly if Ed does not receieve one book contact a year, or agrees to waive writting one (with most likely money payment control of Realms revert to him.[quote:2x982tmz]
However, a number of things have been suggested as reasons why this would be unlikely. Essentially, there are just too many valuable properties associated with the name. The large majority of the computer games released to date have been set in the Forgotten Realms. While there are novels featuring all of the major campaign worlds, the Realms are also home to the Drizzt books, which have considerably more visibility (I would assess) than most others. The brand itself has a certain value, and they are attempting to maintain the use of that.
[/quote:2x982tmz]
It appears Ed does not want control back either, because of the complexitivity of the Realms. The number of people that wrote for it would require a business from ground up to handle royalities, organise canon and so on.
Well (as you said Fire_Wraith) Dragonlance was effectively killed off by WotC, and the whole series of Weis and Hickman novels were incredibly popular (and lucrative) for TSR.
I'm afraid I do see FR go the same way.
When 5th edition comes out (which, no doubt, we'll only have to wait a couple of years for...
) I very much doubt there'll be any FR books released.
But I think Shir'le's right. We should view 4th edition FR as a 'new' setting, that has nothing to do with the FR we know and love.
I'm afraid I do see FR go the same way.
When 5th edition comes out (which, no doubt, we'll only have to wait a couple of years for...
) I very much doubt there'll be any FR books released.But I think Shir'le's right. We should view 4th edition FR as a 'new' setting, that has nothing to do with the FR we know and love.
Last edited by Aelistae on Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
*In tears*
This is heart breaking news to me. I am new to this site, and Liriel banrea's books, and so much of the Forgotten Realms. The forgotten realms where where I learned to roam, and to enjoy magic, mystery, and elves.
I met the man who became my companion for the ages in the Forgotten realms. ((In real life terms it was over 14 years ago) some time ago our travels took us away from our land. from our home of beauty. One of the goddesses I always loved and revered, Eilisraee, was a companion all to often. We had to leave everything behind when we had to move on.
Now to hear this sad news that the lands we knew are gone, destroyed, the goddess supposedly dead. i will not accept it.
WoTC has made many serious misjudgements over the years.
Where we live now we have no way beyond messageboards to visit the land of our dreams.
Stay strong, and we will be right with you in keeping the goddess alive.
I met the man who became my companion for the ages in the Forgotten realms. ((In real life terms it was over 14 years ago) some time ago our travels took us away from our land. from our home of beauty. One of the goddesses I always loved and revered, Eilisraee, was a companion all to often. We had to leave everything behind when we had to move on.
Now to hear this sad news that the lands we knew are gone, destroyed, the goddess supposedly dead. i will not accept it.
WoTC has made many serious misjudgements over the years.
Where we live now we have no way beyond messageboards to visit the land of our dreams.
Stay strong, and we will be right with you in keeping the goddess alive.
[quote="Noraimund":2xgzp465]
I'm honestly curious to see how your friend and mine, Shevarash, god of sanctioned hate crimes, will react to this change.[/quote:2xgzp465]
I believe it's called "Open Season"
Shir'le I'll have to disagree with you on your cutoff point, War of the Spider Queen made things interesting, and actually strengthened Eilistraee's position, so my campaign continues after it.
As for those who think Eilistraee might still be alive or come back in 4E, she is dead in that campaign. WotC campaign, they can do it as they like there. Just as you can do how you like in your campaign.
I'm honestly curious to see how your friend and mine, Shevarash, god of sanctioned hate crimes, will react to this change.[/quote:2xgzp465]
I believe it's called "Open Season"
Shir'le I'll have to disagree with you on your cutoff point, War of the Spider Queen made things interesting, and actually strengthened Eilistraee's position, so my campaign continues after it.
As for those who think Eilistraee might still be alive or come back in 4E, she is dead in that campaign. WotC campaign, they can do it as they like there. Just as you can do how you like in your campaign.
"What does God want? Does God want goodness or the choice of goodness? Is a man who chooses evil perhaps in some way better than a man who has good imposed upon him?"
-
Narsia Ny'Dhun
- Resident
- Posts: 450
- Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 3:51 pm
- Contact:
I really hate the agree (no offense Vendrin) but it really looks like she is gone. Personally I think the whole insinuation that she feigned her death is just Wizards' way of rattling our cages and continuing to get our hopes up. Everyone's getting all excited at he possibility that she'll come back but, honestly, I don't see it happening.
I hate it and it makes me want to rip my hair out, but unless they come up with something really clever in 5E I think we're left to just abandoning the new settings.
Which sucks for me because my only involvement in D&D are the books. Ick.
I hate it and it makes me want to rip my hair out, but unless they come up with something really clever in 5E I think we're left to just abandoning the new settings.
Which sucks for me because my only involvement in D&D are the books. Ick.
Harl l'drathir udos alure, Eilistraee lu'Anixiel ulu kyorl udossa zuch
-
Bhaern Quel
- Demigod
- Posts: 2361
- Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:32 pm
-
Shir'le E. Illios
- High Priestess
- Posts: 2352
- Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 9:51 pm
- Location: Eilistraee.com
- Contact:
And yet, they seemed to have room to create new deities for the Realms. Seems somewhat hypocritical.
As for the cut-off point... Ascendancy of the Last is the culmination of the story that started with War of the Spider Queen. I hated the ending of that series too (and don't agree at all that it put Eilistraee in any stronger position). The only thing I liked out of that series, on a grander scale, was the Demonweb Pits being their own plane, which made sense to me. But I can live without that (it's not as if that really makes much of any difference for mortals anyway).
Now, I've no problem with change and with larger storylines and such, but it has to improve for the better and truly make things interesting. And I, for one, don't see how WotSQ made anything more interesting since nothing changed except making Lolth a bit more powerful (apparently).
Besides, if you start accepting that storyline then you're on a slippery-slope of excepting the rest of it too as it's all part of the same story.
Love -x-x-x-
Shir'le
As for the cut-off point... Ascendancy of the Last is the culmination of the story that started with War of the Spider Queen. I hated the ending of that series too (and don't agree at all that it put Eilistraee in any stronger position). The only thing I liked out of that series, on a grander scale, was the Demonweb Pits being their own plane, which made sense to me. But I can live without that (it's not as if that really makes much of any difference for mortals anyway).
Now, I've no problem with change and with larger storylines and such, but it has to improve for the better and truly make things interesting. And I, for one, don't see how WotSQ made anything more interesting since nothing changed except making Lolth a bit more powerful (apparently).
Besides, if you start accepting that storyline then you're on a slippery-slope of excepting the rest of it too as it's all part of the same story.
Love -x-x-x-
Shir'le
-= Shir'le E. Illios =-
Chosen of Eilistraee