Eilistraee's teachings and real-life politics

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Mags
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Eilistraee's teachings and real-life politics

Post by Mags »

I'm not entirely sure if this is allowed, but I did not see a rule against it, so I'd like to ask:

What's your real-life view of Eilistraee's teachings?

I'm asking, because the alignment of my politics with her is what drew me to her, especially her focus on kindness to all and defending that kindness. I'm kinda hoping to find similarly aligned people.

I note that the "to all" part is key (while not absolute). That most people's kindness is very conditional is causing me a great deal of stress, and I fear that it might get worse. I would like to talk about why that is, but right now I am not convinced of the wisdom of directly referring to real-world events, so I'll refrain for the moment.

What do you all think about Eilistraee's philosophy applied to real-life, and especially the kindness part?
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Irennan
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Re: Eilistraee's teachings and real-life politics

Post by Irennan »

Kindness is often misinterpreted by people. A lot seem to think that kindness is the same as being polite and nice, but that isn't the case. Kindness is born of compassion, aka of understanding the other person's stuation in relation to yours, from both virwpoints but also from an objective viewpoint. That will allow you to reach the goal of kindness: making sure evryone is in a good condition, including you. From your post, I'm thinking that kindness is becoming an exhausting experience to you, due to otheer people often not being kind, so I'll go with that.

Eilistraee's core idea is that of finding beauty in darkness, and cultivating it. That means being able to accept the darkness first, and still being able to find something worth cultivating even in that mess. So, kindness means first understanding and accepting the state of something or someone, even (especially) if it's not comfortable. Then understanding where and how you can actually be of help (seeing the parts of the picture that can be improved, which is a huge effort on its own and requires compassion. Btw, don't set yourself up for failure: kindness will affect only stuff that's within your possibilities; you won't solve world problems*. Eilistraee herself acts in small, everyday ways--food, healing, listening, protection, arts, etc..). Then accepting that people sometimes won't like you despite you putting an effort to do something good and that's ok--both for you and for them. And only then doing what you can to help while at the same time protecting yourself from harm (it's not for nothing that Eilistraee can wield a sword to protect her people).

Also, the part about being able to accept the "darkness" first, includes accepting the "darkness" in you. That is, the real reasons why you want to be kind aren't truly altruistic in nature; people just don't work like that, and it's okay. Be honest with yourself: what does being kind mean to you? Receiving respect in return? Being accepted? Praise? Self-fulfilment? Then ask yourself whether that's healthy (for example, if you're kind because you fear to remain alone, that's an exhausting motivator that will drain you when people won't accept you anyway). If being kind is conditional on receiving some sort of benefit from others, then it will drain you eventually. Not only that, but if you don't look into your own selfish motives first, it will become harder to be accurate in helping others, because it may warp your perception of a situation.

For example, let's say a hypothetical scenario in which a dear friend isn't good at singing, and to you kindness is a mean to be accepted. If you haven't admitted that to yourself first, you likely won't be able to help your friend, because you'll likely fear that your friend will be offended if you give them honest feedback (even if that friend isn't the kind to be offended by that). So you'll most likely end up being positive to them, maybe even persuade yourself that they aren't that bad (possible, if the friend isn'ìt totally awful at singing) tojustify the positivity. OTOH, if you are aware of the motive behind your kindness, you'll at least have a chance to do the right thing and put that fear of rejection aside to actually help your friend, because you're aware and have accepted the situation, and want to improve it (both your friend's skill and yoiur friendship).

In short, kindness there would mean accepting that the friend isn't good at singing and that you fear that honest feedback could offend them, then putting in the effort to tell them that yes, their singing skills are indeed bad, and telling them what--in your opinion, if educated--can be improved. Or, if you lack singing skills yourself, to redirect them towards a competent source to reach their goal. That requires much more effort than just being positive--an actual attempt at analyzing the person's skill, as well as accepting the potential discomfort of the other person being offended by you.

TL; DR: If you want to dedicate yourself to being kind, you must be aware of your own motivations and work on them if they are draining. There must an absolute, something that nobody can take away from you that comes from the acts you do. Basic example: self-fulfilment is a good thing, as it energizes you; acceptance or praise, OTOH, have a good chance of draining you. If you're energized, you'll be able to see "the beauty in the dark" (and in people) on a reliable basis, which will then fuel other kindness as it gives you something actionable (improve this thing, cultivate that other thing, etc..). If you are drained, not so much.

*Unless you can come up with some genial idea or with new revolutionary tech, but that's not the egeneral rule ofc.
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Re: Eilistraee's teachings and real-life politics

Post by Mags »

Thank you for your in-depth reply!

I'll just state what caused my exhaustion and despair: I'm in Germany, Bavaria to be specific, and we had state elections last year. At that point, 80% of people, including 50% of my own party (the Greens), said they wanted "stricter asylum regulations." The whole discussion around this issue is always about how to lock people out, how not to extend compassion to them, instead of asking how we can welcome them in and still meet the challenges that causes. Given that climate change will lead to increasing migration waves, that is not only a dereliction of kindness, it also is just not realistic. Migration is going to increase. We need to be prepared. But instead of accepting that, people close their hearts.

So, my expectation to myself is: how do I contribute to a solution? As you stated, unless I come up with a brilliant idea to solve this, I will not be able to do much on my own. Hence me wanting to connect with others who feel similarly.

Now, the challenge here is that I'm a mostly-non-passing trans woman with autism and crippling social anxiety, who can't even get herself to leave her flat most days. So I want to do that online as much as possible, but I don't know where to start.

Here, Eilistraee is very useful as a touchstone. She makes it much easier to communicate my idea of kindness, since she is very similar to mine. Hence my hope that people who identify with her also agree with me on the problem I stated above.

As to my own motivations, I am usually not able to withhold compassion from someone, unless they are a major asshole, and I feel very bad about people being abandoned. That happening on a grand scale is frightening to me and makes me feel guilty about not doing enough to help.
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Re: Eilistraee's teachings and real-life politics

Post by Irennan »

Sorry for the late reply. I think I understand where you're coming from: there's a feeling of powerleness for issues that you really care about, and that's really bringing you down. I have 3 points to cover.

1)Humans have evolved to be tribalistic. Shutting outsiders out is a tale as old as time, and it's related to how people tend to process things. The human mind learns how to deal with certain issues, as well as gaining what they want, through so-called "control theories". It's a set of case-by-case instructions that we learn as kids through experience, exposure to adults, traditions, religions, etc... and our brains from them with the prupose to make sure we have a place in our community. Among these control theories there are shared ones, which are basically the rules (spoken or unspoken) of our community, that teach use how to survive and gain status in our environment. They're convenient, pre-packaged control theories that firmly lodge themselves in our mental tools for surviving, and therefore identity. Political ideologies are an example of this.

Now, our brains have the etendency to identify with those control theories. It makes sense, because--like I said--those are our ways to keep existing in a decent enough way. That means that a threat to them is provessed by our brain as a threat to us as individuals and to our survival. There have been fMRI scans run on people whose political ideology was challegned, and the centers that respond to physical aggressions lit up. It's insane, but it explains so much of what we see around us. Now, the subtext of a sizable influx of migrants is that of a new control theory coming in, as our communities mix up and therefore their rules also do. That means that people's brain go full "wait, the presnece of these migrants means that our control theory is changing and no longer valid. They're threatening our way to survive. They're a threat to us!" So, they will come up with all sorts of rationalizations (grounded in reality or not) to justify refusing those migrants. They represent a huge canage, and that's scary. Does that justify closure? Nope, but it explains it, and it alos explains that people don't even realize the reason why they're doing it, because we can hardly see the world outside of our control theories, and it takes a special kind of education in order to even realize that you're watching the world through the lenses of your control theories, let alone take those lenses off and view the world through both logic and compassion. It's really hard.

A good merging of 2 cultures requires to ahve some big priorities in common. Once you establish that the goals fo the 2 sides have overlapping, and that there are principles that both sides share, you can work from there. There has to be a basis of shared interest for that to happen. However, you as an individual pbviously can't do this on a large scale. So, why am I telling you this? Because, if you want to do something about migrants and not lose your mental wellbeing over it, that's something we all have to accept how the human brain works first. You will hardly find a country that, as a whole, just openly welcomes migrants. The problem you've shown me basically stems from you feeling powerless about something that deeply affects you on an emotional level. What to do about powerlessness? Find something that you can do immediately.

You will hardly make a large scale change by yourself, and ypu will most likely be unable to change people. If you accept this, and set your expectations to a doable level, you can prevent the vastity of the problem overwhelm you, and look for stuff you can affect with a mind that isn't weighed down by the feeling of powerlessness. The only way to change this, is educating young people in schools about the inner workings of our brains, their trappings, and how to catch those mechanisms and not let them control it. Aka, crouses about practical applications of neurosciences&psychology. That's the best thing a government can do: strike the problem at its root.

What YOU can do? Look at what's going on near you. Are there migrants in need of help in your city? If so, you can go there and help, like Eilistraee teaches, in practical ways--cooking food, help tending to shelters, etc... (dw, I didn't forget you have social anxiety, I'll cover that in point 2). If you want to stay more "at range", you can support organizations that protect migrants' rights (like Amnesty), or send supplies. If you can't afford that, you may want to try and see if there's any work you may be able to do for these organizations (writing newsletters, contacting people to explain the situation to them--if you feel comfortable with it, ofc--, etc...).
The best case scenario is managing to get physcially involved in stuff, as that will allow you to participate in building a local community that cares about this issue, and--like they say--"if you build it, they will come". Such a community will drag in more people and eventually even make them see stuff from a different perspective.

2)Be compassionate towards yourself. The feeling of powerlessness stems from being uable to create changes you want to see. Being able to change something for the better, in a way that immediately affects you, will help with that feeling of powerlessness even if it's not directly related to the change you want to see in your country. It will give you a tool to better and more comfortably act on the outside world, to withstand frustration and disappointment,and that's invaluable to get results. Basically, the less limits (such as social anxiety) on how you can act you have, the better you'll feel in regards to the various issues that are important to you. I don't know how healthcare works in Germany in terms of costs, but stuff like therapy, coaching (https://www.healthygamer.gg/) can be a gamechanger. Even completing some personal project that's lying there unfinished, or completing small tasks, or starting with small interactions with other people, can go a long way to reduce the feeling of powerlessness. Trying to understand

3)Understand where your need of helping abandoned people comes from, and which of your needs it's trying to satisfy. Granted, I'm not saying that compassion isn't anything but excellent, but like all behaviors in people, it's also born out of a purpose. You said you're unable to withhold compassion; that means your brain sees compassion as a "control theory" of sorts. Try asking yourself: "what would happen if I withheld compassion from someone?" and keep asking this question until you reach an answer that directly affects you.

Example:
"what would happen if I withheld compassion from someone?"
"that person would suffer, when I could have done something about it"
"and why would that affect me?"
"because that would make me a bad person"
"and why is being a bad person bad for me?"
"because then I would deserve to be rejected"

The control theory that we can deduce from this case goes somewhat like: "in order to be accepted, I need to be a giver".
What do we do with this info? Well, first off, we ask "is this a harmful control theory?" Not particularly (but remember that placing a condition, any condition, on you being acceptable will lead to harm), until the situation sees you powerless to be a giver. In that case, it's super harmful, because you'll feel like you're wrong and you won't be able to change it.
Second, we ask "where does thi control theory come from?" Aka, why do I feel and act like this. What led me to place such a condition on my acceptability as a person? Once you find this answer, you're realizing that feeling inadequate is your root problem, that the need to offer compassion is the solution your brain came up with, and the reason why your brain came up with that solution will probvide info about the nature of this feeling of inadequateness. In turn, this will give you something to work with in point 2)

Ok, I realize this is a super long post, and that I may come off like I'm making assumptions about you. In that case, I apologize, but I've been in this situation too, and want to provide you with as much info as I can, because info=tools to solve stuff, even if that makes me look rather arrogant, or a bit of an asshole.
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things.
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Re: Eilistraee's teachings and real-life politics

Post by Mags »

Thank you for your excellent analysis and the effort you put in your reply, Irennan!

1) I was aware of the fear of clashing cultural ideas, but I didn't know the term control theories. Can you give me more reading on that matter?

Another thing that's important with advocating for refugees is something I don't have a term for, either, though I'm sure one exists: people tend to disregard the humanity of people we judge to be "not like us." You see this with a lot of things, for example the trans people in sports debate, where the question what is fair always focuses on the cis people, never on what is fair towards the trans person. Or the difference in response to white aid workers being killed by the IDF, as opposed to Palestinians.

Regarding doing practical things for refugees, I'm in Munich, and thankfully here, this is very well covered. There are many organizations doing that, but all I've been in contact (granted, not that many) with refuse to be political. Same for Amnesty. Which is a problem, because it cedes the political space to those demonizing refugees. Last week, the Greens in parliament conceded points on a new bill that would worsen the status of refugees. And I've found the local Greens less than helpful, since they are more concerned about climate change and cleaning up the city than refugees. Of course, I've not been to a meeting in about a year. And online, I've found the Green membership services to be less than stellar. There's just not much there.

2) I'm in therapy at the moment. I have been for about half the time, on and off, since 2009. But I spent two decades in near total isolation, and being an autistic person with parents who had very dysfunctional communication patterns, it took me a while to learn deal with the world. The whole strategy of exposure and having the patient realize that nothing bad happens only works if really nothing bad happens. With me, what happened was that I was unable to deal with simple everyday situations in ways that triggered autistic shutdown. I now have a therapist since late January that is autistic herself and knows a lot about autistic communication, and it's been helping a lot.

But there's a lot to work through with me, I failed to attend an appointment with the vampires to check hormone levels last week because I was unable to get myself to leave the apartment. Attending outside events with any regularity is not realistic for me for the time being.

3) I think the basic control theory behind my compassion is "if someone I emphatise with suffers, I feel pain. To ensure I don't feel pain, I need to ensure nobody suffers." And I do emphatise with most people. In fact, I emphatise with most fictional characters, too, often so strongly that I limit reading fiction because I can't handle the depth of my emotional responses well.

Not sure what to do about that.

4) Putting it all together: I think the first step for me is a safe space where I can interact with people who feel at least somewhat similarly as I do. Which has to be online, since attending events offline is a problem. And I still believe that this forum is a great fit for that. This discussion is very useful and enlightening, even if it focuses on me at the moment. Thank you for that!

Longer term, I think I'm not cut out to be on the front lines against the inconsiderate, but I'm an experienced software developer and I think there are several ways I can make tools for others to use. Someone has to make all the swords for Eilistraee's faithful, after all. :) I'm not able to go it alone, but I still have time to find others. Right now it's all about stabilizing, learning and making connections.
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