A thought hit me.

This forum is for general discussion and open to all. If there is anything you wish to talk about with the Chosen then this is the place to do it. Please limit the use of this forum to out of character discussions. For in character roleplaying please use the Free Form Roleplaying forum.

Moderators: Shir'le E. Illios, Bhaern Quel

User avatar
Leema Har'gachi
Traveler
Posts: 102
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:19 am
Location: Currently Off Realms
Contact:

A thought hit me.

Postby Leema Har'gachi » Thu May 31, 2018 6:58 pm

To start off I have to ask you guy if any of you are familiar with the How it should have ended series on youtube. Well, I was thinking about the events of Lady Penitent Series, particular the opening scene when lolth tells eilistraee that they should put themselves on the line on this next game of sava. While, I was thinking of how stupid it was for eilistraee to agree to this I suddenly heard this line form HISHE Thanos pop into my head (what Eilistraee should have said), "It's not my time yet." I just figure you guys would probable find that funny and hopefully agree she should have said that to lolth.

On a different topic (dirty trick I know), I actually have four of my six core classes written (Bard, Cleric, Fighter [the only section missing is the break object core skill as I am still trying to rewrite it to be more clearly], and magic-user [mages/specialist wizards]) with Psionist (which I am currently working on) and thief. After this I'll be updating my equipment list and checking them for error before testing a few low level spells. Hopeful, once my tenditist heals up I'll be getting back to work to hopefully finishing the basic mechanics before moving on the more difficult stuff.
CODENAME:Leema
Real Name:Leema Apollyon Har'gachi
Class:Variant Illusionist Favored Soul {gestalt}
Race:Shadow Drow
Height:5'8"
Weight:158 Ib.
Hair:Yellowish
Eyes:Purple(pinwheel)
Skin:Pitch-black(surrounded by Shadowy Purple Aura)
Deity:Eilistraee

Irennan
Resident
Posts: 589
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:13 pm
Location: Italy

Re: A thought hit me.

Postby Irennan » Thu May 31, 2018 7:02 pm

Leema Har'gachi wrote:To start off I have to ask you guy if any of you are familiar with the How it should have ended series on youtube. Well, I was thinking about the events of Lady Penitent Series, particular the opening scene when lolth tells eilistraee that they should put themselves on the line on this next game of sava. While, I was thinking of how stupid it was for eilistraee to agree to this I suddenly heard this line form HISHE Thanos pop into my head (what Eilistraee should have said), "It's not my time yet." I just figure you guys would probable find that funny and hopefully agree she should have said that to lolth.


The game wasn't real. It was a metaphor. If you accept the game as real, then 1)the whole novels don't make any sense, because the outcome isn't determined by mortals 2)some scenes are just illogical, like Selvetarm being killed, and then still being there at Lolth's side in the game, only to be killed again. In any case, yes, the game was a stupid and unfitting metaphor.

On a different topic (dirty trick I know), I actually have four of my six core classes written (Bard, Cleric, Fighter [the only section missing is the break object core skill as I am still trying to rewrite it to be more clearly], and magic-user [mages/specialist wizards]) with Psionist (which I am currently working on) and thief. After this I'll be updating my equipment list and checking them for error before testing a few low level spells. Hopeful, once my tenditist heals up I'll be getting back to work to hopefully finishing the basic mechanics before moving on the more difficult stuff.


I'm looking forward to reading them :)

Bhaern Quel
Demigod
Posts: 2053
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:32 pm

Re: A thought hit me.

Postby Bhaern Quel » Thu May 31, 2018 8:19 pm

Well considering how well I regarded the author (After WoftSQ), I did not even read the series.

The even sitting down with a hated Mother struck me as odd to say the least.

As for a game of SAVA, that is something that I would more likely see her Bother taking the risk of beating the odds. I never saw Eilistraee as a gambler. I can see her as defending to the last chance, just not deciding to risk all on a chance of victory or defeat.

I do see that Irennan comment that the game was not real as well. Indeed the orders were issued and a less skilled person then I would preferred was charged with the explaining it. Not very well in my opinion. Not sure how another would have done it, or maybe anyone given the job was told to use SAVA as explanation of the odds appearing to be even.

Irennan
Resident
Posts: 589
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:13 pm
Location: Italy

Re: A thought hit me.

Postby Irennan » Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:29 am

A lot of things in Lady Penitent make absolutely no sense, not just the game. That series was just a haphazardly put together mess that violated a huge amount of lore and warped Eilistraee to the point of unrecognizability.

Really, Smedman's version of this goddess is NOT Eilistraee. You can't even call Smedman's version "goodly", she's N *at best* (even before taking Vhaeraun's portfolio) with all the militarism, misandrism, outright tyranny, mutilations etc... I think it was deliberate, honestly, because the author went to extreme lengths just to take every bit of beautiful lore about Eilistraee, and either warp it, or sh*t on it. At times it felt like she was sniping certain parts of the lore, with the purpose of making the Goddess appear unlikeable.

For example, the Eilistraeeans spontaneously provide healing, food and shelter? Nope, in Smedman's version people have to convert before being helped. Eilistraeeans in Velarswood are friendly with the Selune worshiping lycanthropes? Nope, Smedman has them mindlessly killing every lycanthrope (even kids!!) and making a f*****g trophy tree like Malarites. The Hunt is aimed to rid an area from a monstrous threat? In Smedman's version the Eilistraeeans kill the first thing that they find. Eilistraee's redemption is helping the drow rediscovering and embracing life? Nope, it's a *forced* physical change that tells the drow that their choices don't matter and that they have to give up their identity, for Smedman. Eilistraeeans have no hierarchy and a relationship more akin to sisterhood/brotherhood? Smedman has most priestesses obsessed with being obeyed. Eilistraeeans are welcoming and accepting? Smedman has males effing mutilated just for daring to watch a dance, and traps specifically set for males. Male... traps. For real. I could go on (and I will, if asked). And the problem is that you can't even say that it was a specific community, because that author extended all that to every Eilistraeean community.

Honestly, I hope that Smedman and Athans never get to touch anything D&D or FR. All of that can't be a case, it was done on purpose...

In any case, LP was retconned into oblivion where it belongs.

Orin
Traveler
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:35 am
Location: St. Joseph MO
Contact:

Re: A thought hit me.

Postby Orin » Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:54 am

I just KNEW that the minute someone mentioned Lady Penitent that Irennen was going to have a word or six hundred for them for their trouble. :D I'm really glad that I listened to you and didn't finish it. I never got to the part about the mutilations, one of the last things I read was (I think) the chapter where Qilue sent poor Jub into the lair of a flipping black dragon to spy on the Vhaerunites. That chapter, along with a handful of other things - like how they spoke to Q'arlynd to get him to join them, really left me feeling down and sort of sick. I mean, how could you A) As the leader of the Eilistraeeans in the Promenade, send that poor kid to his absolute doom so irresponsibly and B) just from an author's standpoint, kill off such a very interesting character?!?!

I don't tend to experience books and other media the way that most people seem to. I don't (usually) see things from the author's perspective, even though that would seem logical. I always treat the characters as living, breathing people and try to relate to them from that perspective. When I did with the first Lady Penitent books, I was constantly at odds with a group of people who seemed to simply be more interested in killing their enemies than in bringing anyone into the fold. The priestesses of Eilistraee were also...a bit dumb. I would NEVER have believed Q'arlynd's BS during their first fight with the Vhaerunites and If "I" could see through him, then the priestesses would DEFINITIVELY have.

In short, as Irennen said, none of it made very much sense when compared with the established lore written by Ed Greenwood. Take in mind that this is also coming from a person (me) who puts random stuff that makes no sense in his stories, because sometimes things in life make no sense...but not THAT much.

That's a pretty funny joke though man. Also, I hope you get your other classes worked out soon and congratulations on getting those four first ones written.

Wait, no I think that the last thing I read was Qilue asking Q'arlynd to infiltrate the Vhaeraun priesthood. ...I gotta say...every time I read a chapter from his perspective, all I kept thinking was what I would have done to get him to relax. Like, just show him that he could have a place where threat of imminent death wasn't a part of his regular day.

While I'm on the subject, had I been at the battle at the end of the War of the Spider Queen, I'd have mucked up Lolth's plans BAD with a few honest words, a teleport spell, a flask of holy water and my sword. All you'd have had to do to get Phaeraun to do just about ANYTHING other than what he did, was give him the option to do so.

Orin "Hey Phaer? Through this portal is an in with food, a bath, a bed and a beautiful willing woman to keep it warm. Still want to go into literal hell with that heifer Quenthel? No? Thought so."

[The sounds of Orin killing Quenthel, Danifae and Jeggred]

Orin, to Halistra: "What have we learned?"
Let not the biting, callous and sometimes cruel words of unenlightened and uncaring minds sway your heart from your passions. For it is your passions that are the language with which your soul speaks to the world.

Irennan
Resident
Posts: 589
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:13 pm
Location: Italy

Re: A thought hit me.

Postby Irennan » Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:09 am

Seeing characters as people is a key aspect of being a good author and writing human characters, IMHO.

The Eilistraeeans in WotSQ and LP are not Eilistraeeans. They're reskinned Lolthites. They had to be, to make Drizzt look better. Sad to say, it is incredibly childish and stupid, but that's what WotC wanted. If I may say, fuck Smedman, Athans, and whoever was responsible for this. And fuck their shit.

Don't read a further page of that pile of trash, what you have read up to now is merely the beginning. Things get worse. Those books were made with the sole purpose of 1)getting rid of the drow pantheon for 4e, no story reason (that's confirmed by them) 2)making people dislike the Eilistraeeans (that's pretty obvious). In fact, I know a lot of people who hate Eilistraee's guts because they knew her through those books.

Not to mention, WotSQ itself read as a very poorly thought out intrigue story to me. Its plot basically was "Lolth can never be defeated. Even if she loses whole cities, countless followers, and leaves the drow to rot in hell, it was all part of her plan!1111!!!" A plan that doesn't make any effin' sense from a logical standpoint, and even less from the viewpoint of how divinity in FR works (it reminded me of this video, but with just 1 member of the conspiracy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dI1HjBa9Os&t=384s). Truly poor plotting (which made for an even poorer follow-up). I really don't get how people can be so over those books

User avatar
Leema Har'gachi
Traveler
Posts: 102
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:19 am
Location: Currently Off Realms
Contact:

Re: A thought hit me.

Postby Leema Har'gachi » Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:28 pm

Sorry for dragging up all the bad memories from that book Irennan. Talk'in pushing the nuclear button, good thing Wiz dropped a bolder on it during the 5th edition arc right, now all we need to do is nuke it from orbit and it will be all done. Also, in most of the books leading up to the spellplague most characters where grasping the idiot ball pretty hard, which is pretty funny when you realize all the villians are grasping their villian ball just ass hard. Wish we had a nuke emote here now....
CODENAME:Leema
Real Name:Leema Apollyon Har'gachi
Class:Variant Illusionist Favored Soul {gestalt}
Race:Shadow Drow
Height:5'8"
Weight:158 Ib.
Hair:Yellowish
Eyes:Purple(pinwheel)
Skin:Pitch-black(surrounded by Shadowy Purple Aura)
Deity:Eilistraee

Irennan
Resident
Posts: 589
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:13 pm
Location: Italy

Re: A thought hit me.

Postby Irennan » Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:37 am

Don't worry man, you did nothing wrong. You just wanted a discussion, I went nuke mode.

Orin
Traveler
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:35 am
Location: St. Joseph MO
Contact:

Re: A thought hit me.

Postby Orin » Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:29 pm

I'm sorry I elaborated on it so much, as I know that the details likely didn't help with your Athans/Smedman hate furnace. It wasn't my intention to get you spun up. You're right though. It's unfortunate when someone's art suffers so that someone who is NOT an artist can try and make a buck.

Let's talk about something else....So Irennen...You've spoken to Ed Greenwood a bit on the Candlekeep forums and the like, yeah? We know that Eilistraee is important to Ed, but has he ever said why?

I've often wondered if she isn't based on a sweet, but tough hippie he might have known in his younger years. It's why I always associate those two songs I posted on the music thread "Dancing in the Moonlight" and "Moondance" with the Goddess and Eilistraeeans in general. They've at times reminded me of the sort of flower child, pagan movement from the 60's and 70's.

Oh! Here's another question I pose. What is everyone's favorite Dark Elf in other media? I'll go first. The Dunmer of the Elder Scrolls series, especially in Morrowind. Mostly because they are pervasive and as such, accessible. i.e. you don't have to go into the Underdark, or find a shrine to the Dark Lady to meet one.

Hey also! I found a reference to an AD&D source book about a city called Raven's Bluff the living city, within which is a struggling shrine to Eilistraee in a converted warehouse. I have no idea where this city is, but it sounds cool. I would help these priestesses grow their shrine.
Let not the biting, callous and sometimes cruel words of unenlightened and uncaring minds sway your heart from your passions. For it is your passions that are the language with which your soul speaks to the world.

Irennan
Resident
Posts: 589
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:13 pm
Location: Italy

Re: A thought hit me.

Postby Irennan » Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:57 pm

Once again, don't worry.

I don't know why Eilistraee is so dear to Ed, but your guess might be correct, heh.

As for Raven's Bluff, yeah, I knew about it. There are many cases like that, actually. For example, currently (1491 DR), the priestesses of Eilistraee are even building a shrine within Waterdeep. Basically, after having recovered, Eilistraee started showing up to her people and encouraging them to rebuild strong relationships on the surface. So, the Dark Maiden in person showed up under the walls of Waterdeep, and--a week later--a lot of her drow showed up in the city. They gained the support of the Harpers to build their new shrine in a Ward that had been burned down by dragons during the Rise of Tiamat story.

If you want more lore about Eilistraee, I compiled all that which I could find here: http://www.dmsguild.com/product/176361/ ... -her-Faith with the addition of some non canon plot hooks and speculations.

As for my favourite Dark Elves? Warcraft Night Elves. It is plain as day that they were inspired by the followers of Eilistraee. Led by benevolent priestesses of the Moon, lovers of nature and arts, etc...

Bhaern Quel
Demigod
Posts: 2053
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:32 pm

Re: A thought hit me.

Postby Bhaern Quel » Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:31 pm

Orin wrote:You've spoken to Ed Greenwood a bit on the Candlekeep forums and the like, yeah? We know that Eilistraee is important to Ed, but has he ever said why?


There is nothing that I have seen Ed say about why Eilistraee is important to him. In part he has indicated that she was in his home realm before TSR requested him to provide a good deity for the Drow.

THO has indicated that in home game she has dressed as Drow Priestess, I suspect an Eilistraee one, however that was not stated. Skin dye and clothing optional.

Ed clearly has indicated though THO that he put much thought into everything he has done with the Realms. That even minor characters were given backgrounds for example.

Irennan
Resident
Posts: 589
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:13 pm
Location: Italy

Re: A thought hit me.

Postby Irennan » Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:35 pm

Bhaern Quel wrote:
Orin wrote:You've spoken to Ed Greenwood a bit on the Candlekeep forums and the like, yeah? We know that Eilistraee is important to Ed, but has he ever said why?


There is nothing that I have seen Ed say about why Eilistraee is important to him. In part he has indicated that she was in his home realm before TSR requested him to provide a good deity for the Drow.

THO has indicated that in home game she has dressed as Drow Priestess, I suspect an Eilistraee one, however that was not stated. Skin dye and clothing optional.

Ed clearly has indicated though THO that he put much thought into everything he has done with the Realms. That even minor characters were given backgrounds for example.


He also said that Eilistraee has always had a prominent role in his games, and he told me, through mail, that Eilistraee does indeed mean a lot to him, and that he was trying hard to give her some much needed love in his 5e books. Alas, WotC cut a lot of that lore, and we were only left with the bones of it.

Orin
Traveler
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:35 am
Location: St. Joseph MO
Contact:

Re: A thought hit me.

Postby Orin » Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:35 pm

Ok, I followed all of that, but who is THO?
Let not the biting, callous and sometimes cruel words of unenlightened and uncaring minds sway your heart from your passions. For it is your passions that are the language with which your soul speaks to the world.

Bhaern Quel
Demigod
Posts: 2053
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:32 pm

Re: A thought hit me.

Postby Bhaern Quel » Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:54 pm

Orin wrote:Ok, I followed all of that, but who is THO?


THO = The Hooded One, she is the spokesperson for Ed Greenwood at Candlekeep.

Orin
Traveler
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:35 am
Location: St. Joseph MO
Contact:

Re: A thought hit me.

Postby Orin » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:33 am

Oooohh....The Hooded Lady. Ok, yeah. The first reference I ever saw of/to her was on Ed's site, where he suggests that they correspond with one another in a delightfully risque manner. It's really cute actually. I have no idea who she is, but she'd obviously someone important to him. HA! Maybe SHE'S been Eilistraee this WHOLE TIME!!!!

Just a thought.

P.S. Irennen? I also quite like the Night Elves a lot. My favorite zone in WoW is Ashenvale. It's where my main RP character, Orin (lol) Shadbolt grew up.

Also thanks for linking that compilation, I'll check it out.
Let not the biting, callous and sometimes cruel words of unenlightened and uncaring minds sway your heart from your passions. For it is your passions that are the language with which your soul speaks to the world.


Return to “General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests

cron