Eilistraee.com

[quote="Kirintha the Fair":3bbh3vi2]a minor degree of gender discrimination doesnt diqualify her from a Good alignment.[/quote:3bbh3vi2]
I never said that it did.

However, Eilistraee’s dogma preaches, for a large part, the pursuit of acceptance and, to a certain degree, equality. It would seem decidedly odd to me that while trying to convince the rest of the world to accept drow despite their race and whatnot, they’d still hold to gender discrimination.

No, I think what gender discrimination might still exist in Eilistraeen community is because the faithful (priestesses and otherwise) themselves still have to overcome the prejudices they’ve been spoon-fed from birth. But that doesn’t mean it reflects Eilistraee’s views or teachings.

[quote="Kirintha the Fair":3bbh3vi2]And remember that being excluded from the sisterhood, might actualy benifet the males in some ways.[/quote:3bbh3vi2]
If it benefits them in any way not to be part of the clergy then there’s nobody forcing them to be part of the clergy (just as nobody is forcing the women).

I think [i:3bbh3vi2]that[/i:3bbh3vi2] is the major difference in the approach towards gender in Lolthian and Eilistraeen society. In Lolthian society the women are expected to become priestesses and the men or expected to become fighter or, if they show some signs of intelligence, wizards. There seems fairly little other choice (though, of course, there are always exceptions). In Eilistraeen society I’d imagine everyone being free to choose their own path.

Of course, they likely still carry a lot of the Lolthian preconceptions here and thus would still tend to gravitate towards those roles.

[quote="Kirintha the Fair":3bbh3vi2]this brings us to another issue do you think that communitys of eilistraeeans are theiocratic or democratic.[/quote:3bbh3vi2]
It probably differs from community to community… but it wouldn’t surprise me if most of them were theocratic. They [i:3bbh3vi2]are[/i:3bbh3vi2] dedicated to a religion after all.

Of course, that’s in the most benign form with people following the theocratic leader because of her (his?) wisdom and kindness, perhaps with a bit “force of personality” thrown in.

I think that they are, in many senses of the word, a sisterhood.


Love -x-x-x-

Shir'le

Well as far as it goes, House Quel is run by Bhaern, however he does have (at this time) an all female concil of advisors (2 Priestesses, a Ranger and a Fighter, actually might be adding another female soon an ex Lolth Pristess *wink* ).

just wanting some guesses.

if a drow child is born in a eilistraeean community and expresses interest in joining the sisterhood at what age do you think she'd be brought in.

I know this's been disscused before but I have to bring it up again:

[quote:2dmwwn40]The rest of these events will be female only, only if only females can become Clerics. A reoccuring debate that comes up being did 3.X change that rule bu omission. [/quote:2dmwwn40]

How come? I though Eilistraee's gender neutral?

Anyway, I haven't read the 2nd Ed. much, but from what I recall it does say somehting about only females being allowed, but the more recent editions should say something baout males being allowed in the clergy. Either that or I've gone completly barmy.

Or, do males stay with the age old "oh-wait-I-can't-do-nothing-but-be-a-wizard-or-sorceror" thing?

[quote="Kirintha the Fair":5rnt07et]if a drow child is born in a eilistraeean community and expresses interest in joining the sisterhood at what age do you think she'd be brought in.[/quote:5rnt07et]
I know that this sounds a lot like the answer BioWare gives when asked when their games will be released... but I think the answer to that is: when they’re ready.

What I mean is that it differs highly from person to person. Some might show a lot of aptitude and be accepted early while other might have more trouble and take more time. I think it’s determined very individually.

In general terms though it’s probably not dissimilar from how it works in Lolthian society. Children are raised with a fair bit of religious background (though I also think Eilistraeen society would keep from filtering children into narrowly-defined roles early on). Full education would probably last until they’re about 80 at which point they’d (generally) graduate into their full role. I’d say that from anywhere starting age 20 they can give direction to what they’d want to become.

Of course, that’s all just supposition on my part.


Love -x-x-x-

Shir'le

[quote="Rooky":1jgdn8de]Anyway, I haven't read the 2nd Ed. much, but from what I recall it does say somehting about only females being allowed,[/quote:1jgdn8de]
I’ve posted a quote in this very thread from 2[sup:1jgdn8de]nd[/sup:1jgdn8de] ed. saying exactly that.

[quote="Rooky":1jgdn8de]but the more recent editions should say something baout males being allowed in the clergy. Either that or I've gone completly barmy.[/quote:1jgdn8de]
It’s not so much that 3E says anything about males being allowed, but that it [i:1jgdn8de]doesn’t[/i:1jgdn8de] say anything anymore about it being female-only. And since it doesn’t say it’s female-only the assumption would be that males would be allowed (as you can’t expect people starting with 3E to know about the rule from 2[sup:1jgdn8de]nd[/sup:1jgdn8de] ed.).

At the very least you’d expect the writeup on Eilistraee in Faiths and Pantheons to be complete enough so that players can make clerics of Eilistraee without fearing to make something that’s not possible.

Of course that doesn’t make males clerics of Eilistraee common (even for eilistraeen standards).


Love -x-x-x-

Shir'le

Well 2nd Edition had Drow children mature quicker, 3rd has appeared to slow that down to elf normal (hiwever there are atifacts from 2nd that appear in 3rd of very young Drow having classes).

The when they are ready is posible the best answer as to when they take a class. I do picture that even the young would be taught to defend themseles because of the constant risk of a Lolthian attack. In effect forced to grow up faster then the fair elves normally do.

I also expect that many would take the Bard as their 1st vlass, growing up with music and history about them. Also Eilistraee likes bards. It of course does not hurt from game mechcanics either, all those skill points and class skills. From there they would tend to pick the life pat with a good base of knowledge and their own interests.

Depends what you go off I guess. The book says 120 years is 18ish years old for an Elf, but almost all books/RP storylines i've seen make them half that, give or take, specially for Dark Elves, so I think its generally accepted Illythiiri society is too aggressive to stay a kid, and a living one at that, for a century.

Only Eilistraeen children I recall is the pint sized general, I don't recall her name, in the Promenade, as well as Qilue's deceased daughter.

I suppose from a certain point of view Liriel could count .. she's still a girl far as years go I guess, albiet a talented altruisticly misanthropic one.

Age is really tough when it comes to drow and elves. Here is the way I've worked age in my games:
Underdark drow age at the "normal" human rate up to puberty.
Surface Elves age at the "elven" rates described in the RPG books.
An Eilistraeen drow ages at slightly slower than human rate. This rate increases to elven the longer the bloodline is on the surface, until it would be at a typical elven rate.
An Eilistraeen drow born of a surface elf and an Eilistraeen Drow would age about average for an elf. The drow child may grow up only slightly faster than a true elven child though.
I equate this with the increased danger of living in the Underdark, and the life style of the drow.
There was an article in Dragon Magazine that stated that drow infants are normally concieved as twins, but that the two normally fight in the womb, until one is slain. The act of this conflict a Lolthian priestess finds pleasurable, and if it were not for this experience, no Lolthian would ever willingly concive.
I have wondered, if this was true, would the same experience occure with an Eilistraeen conception?

[quote="Serath En'Sendaran":2ikllmom]
There was an article in Dragon Magazine that stated that drow infants are normally concieved as twins, but that the two normally fight in the womb, until one is slain. The act of this conflict a Lolthian priestess finds pleasurable, and if it were not for this experience, no Lolthian would ever willingly concive.
I have wondered, if this was true, would the same experience occure with an Eilistraeen conception?[/quote:2ikllmom]

I would need to read the article in full, but my best guess would be an answer is in hormones. That if twins were conceieved and one died the Drow mother would still feel the sruge of pleasue. A drug effect that might be often sought.

I was under the impression however that Drow have a greater occurence of twin conception as oposed to all conceptions were twins. That often twins in the womb fight each other, but not always that in fact twins can be born to a Drow female just rarer then twins being concieved.

When I get home, I'll go diggin' for my issue. It's the one with the two drow on the cover, leaping off the bridge, a la Charlie's Angels style. My wife loves that pick. I have to agree, it's one of my favorites as well.
I had that happen in one game I was running... thinking of having the competing twins happen again (doing a re-write of the game) ... it was great. The Eilistraeen was FREAKED !!! The twins didn't kill each other, and they weren't really fighting for dominance... just VERY playful and active. The priestess in question, though, was terrified, because she felt all the movement, knowing what it was associated with, and she was [i:1fntnzo4]enjoying[/i:1fntnzo4] it. Nothing quite like mind games, sometimes.

Please, do [i:9z9pizym]not[/i:9z9pizym] take the “Flesh for Lolth” article as indication of anything. It is near universally reviled by players of both good and evil drow alike. That article is so far from understanding what it means to be drow (and that’s not just me saying, that’s people talking who like playing evil drow) that it doesn’t even seem the same race anymore.

In the end it seems we reconciled with the fact of this being an “official” print by realizing that it was a Greyhawk article (as opposed to a Forgotten Realms one) and thus that it must be something unique to Greyhawk drow.

And with that I don’t ever, [i:9z9pizym]ever[/i:9z9pizym] want to play in that setting again.

So please, ignore anything that piece of bile states.


Love -x-x-x-

Shir'le

I apologize greatly. I did not realize that article caused such an issue. My bad.

Twins, what can I say about Drow twins.....other than my husband in and out of character SUCKS! **I was said Drow Priestess.....grifa fraca brica grrrrrrrr**

Other than that, Drow are a bit higher on the fertility scale than Elves, with a closer relation to Humans. Twins would be higher than Elven rates, but I would agree with one statement in Flesh of Lolth, twins would be rather destructive to a House and one would be sacrificed immediately. I see Eilistraeen twins being very competitive but also playful and mischevious.

[quote="Unen_Stealthfoot":2pmlmtb4][quote="Bhaern Quel":2pmlmtb4][quote="Yasraena D'issan An'ar":2pmlmtb4]Well, then get out there and convert more guys! Or do what Raena did...marry a moon elf....have drow babies.....LOL[/quote:2pmlmtb4]

There is this of course, though in the past genectics indicated a strong chance of having a Drow Child, and occasional fair elf child, and even rarer a mixed blood child. Skin brown, eyes blue, type of thing. 3.X I think removed this option though.

Oh do not let the spider kisser distract you too much, part of her job appears to be to run down Eilistraee followers. *Grin*[/quote:2pmlmtb4]

[color=darkred:2pmlmtb4]I heard someone say on the old forum that there were no mixed-blood elves. That is to say, a drow-gold elf mating would make a drow usually, sometimes a gold elf, and sometimes, instead of a mix, an elf of another subrace, say a moon or wild elf. Not sure how that works though. [/color:2pmlmtb4][/quote:2pmlmtb4]

Sancha's father is actually the product of a Drow-Gold Elf mating. He basically appears as a drow, and that's all most people can tell -- but other drow can tell he's a halfbreed, as they can see the subtle signs of his surface elven blood. Some surface elves can also tell that he is half-drow half-sun elf-- basically those who are familiar enough with drow to notice that his skin is a bit lighter and his eye color is a bit off, etc.

Vhaeraun's write up in the old books said that the offspring of a drow and a surface elf 'usually' look all or mostly drow. So yeah, I took that implication to mean that in rare cases they might appear as a surface elf (or maybe a surface elf with drow hair or eye color).

Sancha has a lot of siblings. Most of them look drow, or as her father looks, mostly drow with a few subtle signs of surface elven blood. But not all of them. Sancha was one of three triplets her father had with a wild elf, and all three look different in their skin tone. Sancha appears completely drow. Her twin-sister appears completely wild elven. Her twin-brother appears to be a gold elf. So yeah I guess my DM had the same interpretation on that part as you and I do.