So, few things
1. Selvetarm is dead.
2. Vhaeruan is dead with power and portfolio's absorbed into Eilistraee.
3. The Crescent Blade used to kill Selvetarm is not quite the pure Eilistraeen artifact it was in the WotSQ. It has an intelligence now and it doesn't seem to be a nice one.
Speculations.
1. Followers of Selvetarm for the most part will go to Lolth, but Ghaundaur might pick up a few, and perhaps even a portfolio of Selvetarms. Lolth might be looking for allies and if Ghaundaur gains some sudden sanity from an influx of selvy's old portfolio's he might be it.
2. Eilistraee might be shifting to CN on us, or on the way. She's picked up a lot of Vhaeraun's power and his portfolio which can be decidedly evil at times, and for the time being, she is masquerading as Vhaeraun to his followers. Hopefully enough of Vhaeraun remains to remove the last of her gender bias, especially if the two churches merge, which Qilue seems intent on doing.
3. I see a big plot by Lolth in the works in this.
Sacrifice of the Widow Speculation- SPOILERS
Moderators: Shir'le E. Illios, Bhaern Quel
Sacrifice of the Widow Speculation- SPOILERS
"What does God want? Does God want goodness or the choice of goodness? Is a man who chooses evil perhaps in some way better than a man who has good imposed upon him?"
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Bhaern Quel
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[quote="Rooky":omyxm4c8]Due to my low inteligence...What happens to Eilistraee in the end?[/quote:omyxm4c8]
Well two books to go, so hard to know what will happen. As far as some speculation goes a few over in candlekeep are not sure which of the children actually won. in the end it might be Vhaeruan might be masquerading as Eilistraee. Perhaps the two children actually merge into a new deity, that might help explain alignment shift.
Hmm, Lolth plot, perhaps not she lost Elven Destiny when cast down.
Well two books to go, so hard to know what will happen. As far as some speculation goes a few over in candlekeep are not sure which of the children actually won. in the end it might be Vhaeruan might be masquerading as Eilistraee. Perhaps the two children actually merge into a new deity, that might help explain alignment shift.
Hmm, Lolth plot, perhaps not she lost Elven Destiny when cast down.
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Shir'le E. Illios
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[quote="Vendrin":wr2eqd2g]2. Eilistraee might be shifting to CN on us, or on the way.[/quote:wr2eqd2g]
I seriously, strongly, [i:wr2eqd2g]deeply[/i:wr2eqd2g] hope that this will [i:wr2eqd2g]not[/i:wr2eqd2g] be the case. The only thing worse would be outright killing her. But Eilistraee is the goddess of good drow and if she suddenly shifts to neutral… It’s be a clear sign (once again) that Wizards doesn’t want us; that they’re embarrassed by all the good drow or something like that. Maybe even that they’re trying to make the Forgotten Realms drow more like the Greyhawk drow, taking away that which makes them, in my mind, special.
It would be enough for me to leave the Realms forever and maybe even abandon this site. Because, what would be the point?
[quote="Vendrin":wr2eqd2g]Hopefully enough of Vhaeraun remains to remove the last of her gender bias, especially if the two churches merge, which Qilue seems intent on doing.[/quote:wr2eqd2g]
I wouldn’t mind that at all. In fact I’m hoping that it’ll be enough to help the Vhaeraunites more towards the good side of the spectrum (though I can imagine that fans of Vhaeraun might feel similar about that as I feel about the possibility of Eilistraee shifting to Neutral).
[quote="Vendrin":wr2eqd2g]3. I see a big plot by Lolth in the works in this.[/quote:wr2eqd2g]
Lolth always has some “big plot” in the works and, to be honest, it’s getting really, really tiresome.
Anyway, I’m rather surprised that they’d put the drow pantheon through such upheaval. It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if, by the end of the series, everything is back to how it was before the War of the Spider Queen (with the possible exception that the Demonweb Pits would still be a separate realm).
But I’m afraid, I’m very afraid. If she so easily kills off two deities in a single book then with two more books to go…
Anyway, I just got handed the book (i.e. it just arrived) so I guess I’ll be spending the next few days actually [i:wr2eqd2g]reading[/i:wr2eqd2g] it.
Love -x-x-x-
Shir'le
I seriously, strongly, [i:wr2eqd2g]deeply[/i:wr2eqd2g] hope that this will [i:wr2eqd2g]not[/i:wr2eqd2g] be the case. The only thing worse would be outright killing her. But Eilistraee is the goddess of good drow and if she suddenly shifts to neutral… It’s be a clear sign (once again) that Wizards doesn’t want us; that they’re embarrassed by all the good drow or something like that. Maybe even that they’re trying to make the Forgotten Realms drow more like the Greyhawk drow, taking away that which makes them, in my mind, special.
It would be enough for me to leave the Realms forever and maybe even abandon this site. Because, what would be the point?
[quote="Vendrin":wr2eqd2g]Hopefully enough of Vhaeraun remains to remove the last of her gender bias, especially if the two churches merge, which Qilue seems intent on doing.[/quote:wr2eqd2g]
I wouldn’t mind that at all. In fact I’m hoping that it’ll be enough to help the Vhaeraunites more towards the good side of the spectrum (though I can imagine that fans of Vhaeraun might feel similar about that as I feel about the possibility of Eilistraee shifting to Neutral).
[quote="Vendrin":wr2eqd2g]3. I see a big plot by Lolth in the works in this.[/quote:wr2eqd2g]
Lolth always has some “big plot” in the works and, to be honest, it’s getting really, really tiresome.
Anyway, I’m rather surprised that they’d put the drow pantheon through such upheaval. It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if, by the end of the series, everything is back to how it was before the War of the Spider Queen (with the possible exception that the Demonweb Pits would still be a separate realm).
But I’m afraid, I’m very afraid. If she so easily kills off two deities in a single book then with two more books to go…
Anyway, I just got handed the book (i.e. it just arrived) so I guess I’ll be spending the next few days actually [i:wr2eqd2g]reading[/i:wr2eqd2g] it.
Love -x-x-x-
Shir'le
-= Shir'le E. Illios =-
Chosen of Eilistraee
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Bhaern Quel
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Re: Sacrifice of the Widow Speculation- SPOILERS
[quote="Vendrin":elok5gda]So, few things
1. Selvetarm is dead.
2. Vhaeruan is dead with power and portfolio's absorbed into Eilistraee.
3. The Crescent Blade used to kill Selvetarm is not quite the pure Eilistraeen artifact it was in the WotSQ. It has an intelligence now and it doesn't seem to be a nice one.
Speculations.
1. Followers of Selvetarm for the most part will go to Lolth, but Ghaundaur might pick up a few, and perhaps even a portfolio of Selvetarms. Lolth might be looking for allies and if Ghaundaur gains some sudden sanity from an influx of selvy's old portfolio's he might be it.
2. Eilistraee might be shifting to CN on us, or on the way. She's picked up a lot of Vhaeraun's power and his portfolio which can be decidedly evil at times, and for the time being, she is masquerading as Vhaeraun to his followers. Hopefully enough of Vhaeraun remains to remove the last of her gender bias, especially if the two churches merge, which Qilue seems intent on doing.
3. I see a big plot by Lolth in the works in this.[/quote:elok5gda]
WTF?! A new book? Damn.. I'm missing out on things...
1. Selvetarm is dead.
2. Vhaeruan is dead with power and portfolio's absorbed into Eilistraee.
3. The Crescent Blade used to kill Selvetarm is not quite the pure Eilistraeen artifact it was in the WotSQ. It has an intelligence now and it doesn't seem to be a nice one.
Speculations.
1. Followers of Selvetarm for the most part will go to Lolth, but Ghaundaur might pick up a few, and perhaps even a portfolio of Selvetarms. Lolth might be looking for allies and if Ghaundaur gains some sudden sanity from an influx of selvy's old portfolio's he might be it.
2. Eilistraee might be shifting to CN on us, or on the way. She's picked up a lot of Vhaeraun's power and his portfolio which can be decidedly evil at times, and for the time being, she is masquerading as Vhaeraun to his followers. Hopefully enough of Vhaeraun remains to remove the last of her gender bias, especially if the two churches merge, which Qilue seems intent on doing.
3. I see a big plot by Lolth in the works in this.[/quote:elok5gda]
WTF?! A new book? Damn.. I'm missing out on things...
I don't think I'll actually read the books. Any spoilers are free to pop up here.
This sucks. Serously. I'm really angry with the Wizards. I know they have to keep the whole "machine" turnin' but, by the gods in hevens and hells, why do they do so much a mess!?! That's bullshit what they're doing. What's the big idea, trying to get rid of good drow?
This sucks. Serously. I'm really angry with the Wizards. I know they have to keep the whole "machine" turnin' but, by the gods in hevens and hells, why do they do so much a mess!?! That's bullshit what they're doing. What's the big idea, trying to get rid of good drow?
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Shir'le E. Illios
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To be fair there’s no proof that they [i:3m0w6l7c]are[/i:3m0w6l7c] trying to get rid of good drow (it was just my speculation that that’s what they might be trying to do [i:3m0w6l7c]if[/i:3m0w6l7c] Eilistraee changes alignment to neutral in a later book).
So far the good drow seem to be pretty much the heroes of the book (well, except this one wizard, but I’ve got a strong feeling he’ll be one of the good guys before the thing is done).
So far things haven’t been going all that well though. More good drow have died than any others and it seems that all the powers are aligned against them.
I’m actually quite curious how those that tend to play evil drow feel about the whole thing. I mean, people have [i:3m0w6l7c]got[/i:3m0w6l7c] to be upset with Vhaeraun’s death (if he really is; I’m not to that point yet). And making it either Eilistraee or Lolth makes it so that one way or another a lot of people are going to be pissed off (again, if they actually go ahead with that).
I must say though, despite my mounting trepidation I’m really quite enjoying the book. I just can’t help but pray at every page to try and lend our Lady a little of my strength.
Love -x-x-x-
Shir'le
So far the good drow seem to be pretty much the heroes of the book (well, except this one wizard, but I’ve got a strong feeling he’ll be one of the good guys before the thing is done).
So far things haven’t been going all that well though. More good drow have died than any others and it seems that all the powers are aligned against them.
I’m actually quite curious how those that tend to play evil drow feel about the whole thing. I mean, people have [i:3m0w6l7c]got[/i:3m0w6l7c] to be upset with Vhaeraun’s death (if he really is; I’m not to that point yet). And making it either Eilistraee or Lolth makes it so that one way or another a lot of people are going to be pissed off (again, if they actually go ahead with that).
I must say though, despite my mounting trepidation I’m really quite enjoying the book. I just can’t help but pray at every page to try and lend our Lady a little of my strength.
Love -x-x-x-
Shir'le
-= Shir'le E. Illios =-
Chosen of Eilistraee
[quote="Shir'le E. Illios":1gmy3fma]
So far things haven’t been going all that well though. More good drow have died than any others and it seems that all the powers are aligned against them.[/quote:1gmy3fma]
Except for them all being gender biased too.
And no I am not letting go of that because I so called it!
[quote:1gmy3fma]I’m actually quite curious how those that tend to play evil drow feel about the whole thing. I mean, people have [i:1gmy3fma]got[/i:1gmy3fma] to be upset with Vhaeraun’s death (if he really is; I’m not to that point yet). And making it either Eilistraee or Lolth makes it so that one way or another a lot of people are going to be pissed off (again, if they actually go ahead with that).[/quote:1gmy3fma]
While I am angry that they got rid of both Selvetarm and Vhaeraun(I could stand the loss of one, but both male deities in the pantheon?) The story was good, and it leaves potential for much more evil buildup. I think it's about time Lolth started reigning in her wayward children to form a dark seldarine of sorts to make the drow an actual threat instead of always killing each other off due to infighting. However the bitch is to chaotic stupid to do such, so little chance of that dream happening.
Frankly I hope both Selvetarm and Vhaeraun stay dead. Let Vhaeraun's portfolio influence Eilistraee enough to make her faith actually equal on gender and maybe add a bit of darkness to her, to spice things up. Still a good diety but not one that is hesitant to have a few assassins taking down the enemies of good.
So far things haven’t been going all that well though. More good drow have died than any others and it seems that all the powers are aligned against them.[/quote:1gmy3fma]
Except for them all being gender biased too.
And no I am not letting go of that because I so called it!
[quote:1gmy3fma]I’m actually quite curious how those that tend to play evil drow feel about the whole thing. I mean, people have [i:1gmy3fma]got[/i:1gmy3fma] to be upset with Vhaeraun’s death (if he really is; I’m not to that point yet). And making it either Eilistraee or Lolth makes it so that one way or another a lot of people are going to be pissed off (again, if they actually go ahead with that).[/quote:1gmy3fma]
While I am angry that they got rid of both Selvetarm and Vhaeraun(I could stand the loss of one, but both male deities in the pantheon?) The story was good, and it leaves potential for much more evil buildup. I think it's about time Lolth started reigning in her wayward children to form a dark seldarine of sorts to make the drow an actual threat instead of always killing each other off due to infighting. However the bitch is to chaotic stupid to do such, so little chance of that dream happening.
Frankly I hope both Selvetarm and Vhaeraun stay dead. Let Vhaeraun's portfolio influence Eilistraee enough to make her faith actually equal on gender and maybe add a bit of darkness to her, to spice things up. Still a good diety but not one that is hesitant to have a few assassins taking down the enemies of good.
"What does God want? Does God want goodness or the choice of goodness? Is a man who chooses evil perhaps in some way better than a man who has good imposed upon him?"
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Shir'le E. Illios
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I finally finished the novel this weekend. Very interesting indeed, though I can’t help but still feel trepidation at the future for our deity (as I’m sure those who prefer Lolth would feel the same).
It does seem though that there are strong hints that Eilistraee’s gender-bias might go completely out of the window; on several occasions there was mention on how Eilistraee was still very much female-dominated and Vhaeraun male-dominated. That is, at least, if Vhaeraun truly is dead.
Because I’m not at all certain that that’s the case. The only ones whose word we have of that is the Vhaeraunian clerics. And while I’m certain that they believe he is I can’t help but think of the sava game and it’s apparent omission as to his demise.
When I look at the sava-game passages dealing with that it seems to me that Vhaeraun put his piece on the board clearly in the path of Eilistraee’s wizard. Why would he put it there? It could be that he did so to open up the path for Lolth to Eilistraee’s piece, but he hardly seems the type to sacrifice himself (let alone for Lolth). Or it could be that he though she wouldn’t take it and leave herself open (and just to take a ‘slave’). Still, it leaves one to wonder. Then there was at the end where, even though the death of Selvetarm was described in great detail, Vhaeraun was hardly mentioned at all (just Eilistraee ‘capturing’ his piece).
And I can’t help but wonder if this is perhaps Vhaeraun’s sneaky way of forming an alliance (however temporary) with his sister to get rid of Lolth together. Then again that seems a rather risky proposition as well (particularly considering that she’s only still alive on pure chance). So we’ll just have to see what the future brings.
I know I would quite like it if he (and Selvetarm) stayed dead with Eilistraee getting his portfolio. I would be quite happy for her to start treating both women and men as equals thanks to his essence. And I wouldn’t mind at all for her to inherit a roguish side as well, [b:8wy1a6id]as long as she stays good[/b:8wy1a6id]. If she changes away from good she’d no longer be the goddess of good drow and no matter what the outcome otherwise good would still have lost.
Then there is this brief moment in the novel where Qilué’s communion with Eilistraee was interrupted by another deity and Eilistraee apparently allowing it. Any speculation on who that might’ve been?
Finally I can’t help but think on Paul S. Kemp’s words regarding the Lady Penitent; how that essence of good that Lolth left alive inside her to punish her might in the end become her undoing (I tried looking for the exact quote but didn’t find it). And it seems to me that the battle will ultimately be decided by Hallistra.
Love -x-x-x-
Shir'le
It does seem though that there are strong hints that Eilistraee’s gender-bias might go completely out of the window; on several occasions there was mention on how Eilistraee was still very much female-dominated and Vhaeraun male-dominated. That is, at least, if Vhaeraun truly is dead.
Because I’m not at all certain that that’s the case. The only ones whose word we have of that is the Vhaeraunian clerics. And while I’m certain that they believe he is I can’t help but think of the sava game and it’s apparent omission as to his demise.
When I look at the sava-game passages dealing with that it seems to me that Vhaeraun put his piece on the board clearly in the path of Eilistraee’s wizard. Why would he put it there? It could be that he did so to open up the path for Lolth to Eilistraee’s piece, but he hardly seems the type to sacrifice himself (let alone for Lolth). Or it could be that he though she wouldn’t take it and leave herself open (and just to take a ‘slave’). Still, it leaves one to wonder. Then there was at the end where, even though the death of Selvetarm was described in great detail, Vhaeraun was hardly mentioned at all (just Eilistraee ‘capturing’ his piece).
And I can’t help but wonder if this is perhaps Vhaeraun’s sneaky way of forming an alliance (however temporary) with his sister to get rid of Lolth together. Then again that seems a rather risky proposition as well (particularly considering that she’s only still alive on pure chance). So we’ll just have to see what the future brings.
I know I would quite like it if he (and Selvetarm) stayed dead with Eilistraee getting his portfolio. I would be quite happy for her to start treating both women and men as equals thanks to his essence. And I wouldn’t mind at all for her to inherit a roguish side as well, [b:8wy1a6id]as long as she stays good[/b:8wy1a6id]. If she changes away from good she’d no longer be the goddess of good drow and no matter what the outcome otherwise good would still have lost.
Then there is this brief moment in the novel where Qilué’s communion with Eilistraee was interrupted by another deity and Eilistraee apparently allowing it. Any speculation on who that might’ve been?
Finally I can’t help but think on Paul S. Kemp’s words regarding the Lady Penitent; how that essence of good that Lolth left alive inside her to punish her might in the end become her undoing (I tried looking for the exact quote but didn’t find it). And it seems to me that the battle will ultimately be decided by Hallistra.
Love -x-x-x-
Shir'le
-= Shir'le E. Illios =-
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Shir'le E. Illios
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[quote="Vendrin":20igmyof](I could stand the loss of one, but both male deities in the pantheon?)[/quote:20igmyof]
Remember, there's another male deity.
Love -x-x-x-
Shir'le
Remember, there's another male deity.
Love -x-x-x-
Shir'le
-= Shir'le E. Illios =-
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[quote="Shir'le E. Illios":360c67la][quote="Vendrin":360c67la](I could stand the loss of one, but both male deities in the pantheon?)[/quote:360c67la]
Remember, there's another male deity.
Love -x-x-x-
Shir'le[/quote:360c67la]
[b:360c67la]<==^==>[/b:360c67la]
[color=blue:360c67la]Gauny?...
Isnt he, like... A ooze?[/color:360c67la]
[b:360c67la]<==^==>[/b:360c67la]
Remember, there's another male deity.
Love -x-x-x-
Shir'le[/quote:360c67la]
[b:360c67la]<==^==>[/b:360c67la]
[color=blue:360c67la]Gauny?...
Isnt he, like... A ooze?[/color:360c67la]
[b:360c67la]<==^==>[/b:360c67la]
..Out of darkness, into light, hopeful spirit, the moon shine bright..
..No more fear, the nightmare ends fast, sleep only safe, have peace at last..
..Beyond the hate, beneath the stars course, follow me to harmony, an end to all wars..
..No more fear, the nightmare ends fast, sleep only safe, have peace at last..
..Beyond the hate, beneath the stars course, follow me to harmony, an end to all wars..
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Bhaern Quel
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[quote:2tmdaulp] Then there is this brief moment in the novel where Qilué’s communion with Eilistraee was interrupted by another deity and Eilistraee apparently allowing it. Any speculation on who that might’ve been? [/quote:2tmdaulp]
Well first guess would be Mystra, after all Qilué is Chosen of both deities.
Second guess would be Vhaeraun infering he still lives and the children made a deal against their mother.
Well first guess would be Mystra, after all Qilué is Chosen of both deities.
Second guess would be Vhaeraun infering he still lives and the children made a deal against their mother.