Drow Deities

Post by **Shir'le E. Illios** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:46 am

[quote="Zakharra":sx0gc8tj]I know some pictures that would get converts for Eilistraee.

[/quote:sx0gc8tj]
Oh?

[i:sx0gc8tj]<is curious>[/i:sx0gc8tj]

Love -x-x-x-

Shir'le

Rooky · Post by **Rooky** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:00 pm

[quote="Shir'le E. Illios":3bwnh879][quote="Zakharra":3bwnh879]I know some pictures that would get converts for Eilistraee.

[/quote:3bwnh879]
Oh?

[i:3bwnh879]<is curious>[/i:3bwnh879]

Love -x-x-x-

Shir'le[/quote:3bwnh879]

Tisk tisk Shirl'le. Tisk, tisk

Zakharra · Post by **Zakharra** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:23 pm

Unen_Stealthfoot · Post by **Unen_Stealthfoot** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:51 pm

[color=darkred:3di4yq58]I like some of them, others.... not so much.[/color:3di4yq58]

Post by **Shir'le E. Illios** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:01 am

[quote="Rooky":2b8d5w8k]Tisk tisk Shirl'le. Tisk, tisk[/quote:2b8d5w8k]
What?

Love -x-x-x-

Shir'le

Unen_Stealthfoot · Post by **Unen_Stealthfoot** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:26 pm

[color=darkred:2w7e3iah]I'd already seen a couple too.[/color:2w7e3iah]

Sancha · Post by **Sancha** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:52 pm

[quote="Unen_Stealthfoot":2fyw4lr3][color=darkred:2fyw4lr3]Yuck. *wipes cloak on rooky's fur* It also says in Vhaeruan's dogma to help drow thieves in the act (or any thieves for that matter). Does that include drow, Eilistraeen thieves? (CG, NG, or CN obviously)[/color:2fyw4lr3][/quote:2fyw4lr3]

Yes, it does. It includes spiderkisser thieves too, even. All drow thieves in need or in trouble must be aided, even if it means rescuing them from prison.

Now, if said thief had commited treachery or cold blooded murder against Vhaeraun's Church or devoted followers of his, don't expect the local Dark Dagger cell to be helping you. But otherwise yes

Sancha · Post by **Sancha** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:06 pm

[quote="Bhaern Quel":2porod6e][quote="Unen_Stealthfoot":2porod6e][color=darkred:2porod6e]Now, correct me if I am wrong, but Vhaeraun and Eilistraee both dislike Lolth. So, enemy of my enemy is my.... Hated sister? That's what Vhaeraun classifies Eilistraee as. Shouldn't they be (at least tentative) allies?[/color:2porod6e][/quote:2porod6e]

Nice idea, but the enemy of my enemy is my friend does not work in RW and clearly does not work with the Drow Deities.

There are different ways at looking at mutual hate.

Lolth hates Vhaeraun for failure to hold captine Serine (IIRC) spoiling her plans to take control, She hates Elistraee for being daddies girl.

Vhaeraun hates Lolth for taking followers from him, he hates his sister for being "Daddy's girl"

Elistraee hates both for their path of Evil, Lolth more because she caused her to shoot her beloved father, but can not work with brother because he would use Evil tactics to kill mother.

There is only one point that Vhaeraun and Elistraee can agree on, that Drow should live on the surface. They disagree on all points on how they should live on the surface. As far as it goes Lolth also seeks control of the surface as well.[/quote:2porod6e]

Vhaeraun also hates Eilistraee for preventing him from gaining stronger control over the Ssri-Tel'Quessir, which is what allowed Lolth and the ooze to take followers from him... He blames his sister for that, and I think it's one of the main grudges he holds against her.

As for Eilistraee and Vhaeraun working together or making peace to jointly go after their mother... I find it far more likely that some of their [i:2porod6e]mortal followers[/i:2porod6e] would attempt that than the gods themselves.

Vhaeraun's pride will make it difficult to give in and ask for or accept direct and open help from his sister. Likewise, I think her mistrust of him will work against such a thing happening any time soon. Maybe if it became necessary and they were both backed into a corner, they might join up, but I think it would take a bit of influence from the drow themselves to mend the gaps between the two enough for any kind of actual alliance.

Maybe in a hundred years when there are more drow communities and cities on the surface venerating both gods, or Eilistraee's clergy have shown themselves to actually be more accepting of equality between the sexes, and co-operation with Vhaeraunite agents [i:2porod6e]and[/i:2porod6e] other elves for mutal benefit, the two gods could be more open to mending their differences a bit.

I think it would be a long process, not something that should just happen all of a sudden without some effort from both sides. (More likely, as I said, effort by some of their mortal drow followers, even without the initial support of either god.) Or without both gods being backed into a serious corner during the civil war, where a typical drow alliance of convenience may temporarily performed.

On the other hand, it IS and always has been in Vhaeraun's writeup that "he seeks to unite the other drow powers against Lolth." So it's not totally out of the question for him to seek to do so with Eilistraee. But considering their feelings for each other, and the hyperboled sibling rivalry/dislike relationship they have had for some 10,000 years now, I always took it that she would be the LAST drow god he'd approach for an alliance, instead of the first.

He'd also have an easier time convincing his sister to take him seriously, I think, if he'd already gotten one or two others to co-operate first and had a good plan.

If Eilistraee were to do something like free Vhaeraun's son Selvatarm from the Chains of the Demonweb and Lolth's influence, and give Vhaeraun a useful ally in war against Lolth, sure, then maybe I could see Vhaeraun having a change of heart and be open to consider forgiving his sister a bit--- oh wait, too bad won't ever happen in the canon now.

The intro to the new novel actually shows what I'd call a good typical example of how the two 'work together' against Lolth. Eilistraee is playing a savat game with her mother. He 'helps' his siter by swapping some of Lolth's pieces while noone is looking; only his sister sees it. She doesn't know if he actually helped her, or made it harder for her. He doesn't say or give any indication. So she doesn't tell mother what he did, and hopes that it was help he gave. (It turned out to be, as evidenced by Lolth's anger when that peice is taken in the game and she realizes she'd moved an important piece into a risky position, instead of a slave piece.)

So they sort of did both work against Lolth. But they were not co-operating to do it, really. They were both just working agianst the Spider Queen, not so much working [i:2porod6e]together[/i:2porod6e] against her like true allies would.

Sancha · Post by **Sancha** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:35 pm

[quote="Rooky":y6vbx52g]It said in Bhaern's quote that the Llolth priestss are a bunch of "squablling gaggle of backstabbers that exist in Houses, clans and aims."

So what does that make Vhearuniaite's? (or how you spell it)

"Death before dishonor" like the Dragonlance Minotaurs?[/quote:y6vbx52g]

According to his writeups, (but not the new drow novels), the Vhaeraunites work together and cooperate. While all drow work well together in groups, even spiderkissers, the Vhaeraunites are not worrying about their comrades or siblings stabbing them in the back during combat. Treachery from one Vhaeraunite to another would generally be kept to a minimum. Rivalry and competition, sure, but outright betrayal or the typical infighting and behaviour exhibted by spiderkissers in the underdark does not fit with his Dogma. A priest especially who did that could get in trouble with Vhaeraun, afterall, for He [i:y6vbx52g]might[/i:y6vbx52g] see the priests actions against a fellow Vhaeraunite as treachery against the church itself. He does not encourage his followers to fight amongst themselves. In fact, he encourages the opposite.

The 'fervent' Vhaeraunites tend to be broken up into small cells or guilds within their geographic location, and the members of each such group work well together. They may or may not have close ties or a tightknit brotherhood with [i:y6vbx52g]other[/i:y6vbx52g] groups, but they don't fight with each other like spiderkissers do. Groups with direct ties to the Church (ie a group of priests, like the Nightshadows from the Vault of Cloaked Midnight, or a small group/guild of Darkmask specialty priests) are more likely to have contact with and ties to other groups.

(The FRCS describes the Auzkovyn Clan and House Jaelre, two large groups of Vhaeraunites living in Cormanthor, as not having a direct or solid alliance with each other. Sometimes their patrols will attack each other in the woods, but they just use knockout poison , and do not kill one another.)

The 2nd ed Demihuman Deities writeup indicates that his clergy often work with and support other groups of his followers. For examples: the Nightshadows and Dark Dagger in the South and in the West clearly work closely together; his priests support communities of drow on the surface (even if they aren't all strictly Vhaeraunites), ensuring they have supplies or helping them to become self-sufficient; his priests are expected to work with and subvert thieves guilds of other races; many of his priests advocate co-operation and alliance between the drow and surface elves for common advancement and reclaiming their place above the 'lesser races'.

Post by **Shir'le E. Illios** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:13 am

[quote="Sancha":1cm54x88]He'd also have an easier time convincing his sister to take him seriously, I think, if he'd already gotten one or two others to co-operate first and had a good plan.[/quote:1cm54x88]
I’m not completely sure of that. I’d imagine that such a group would feel too much like an ‘alliance of evil’, similar to the anti-Seldarine Lolth got together to attack Arvandor (which got them banished in the first place). I’d imagine that Eilistraee wouldn’t be eager to be part of such a group.

Concerning them working together though, I have a hard time seeing them openly working together. But then Vhaeraun isn’t really the deity to do things openly and as such I can see him [i:1cm54x88]covertly[/i:1cm54x88] working together with Eilistraee (in the same way that Mask worked together with Cyric during the Time of Troubles to slay Bhaal).

That’s a bit more than he does in the start of Sacrifice of the Widow, where he more seems to play both sides against the middle (what he does helps Eilistraee, but helps Lolth as well). More a… helping both your enemies hurt each other more so that they’re easier to take down at the end of it. Which also suits him, but I wouldn’t really call it working together with Eilistraee, or even really helping her.

Love -x-x-x-

Shir'le

Rooky · Post by **Rooky** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:00 pm

Let's try this:

You ALL will from now on write a maximum of five sentances. I really want to know what's going on in the Drow world, but if you keep on babling, and wasting usefull forum space like this, I swear I'm going to kill someone....

This is all one sentance.

Argoth · Post by **Argoth** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:37 am

And that was a second sentence...

Unen_Stealthfoot · Post by **Unen_Stealthfoot** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:34 pm

[color=darkred:1yrsz9ns]@Rooky" *talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk*[/color:1yrsz9ns]

Rooky · Post by **Rooky** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:11 pm

An exelent insult. And all in one sentance.
Please sent that in PM, so that I can degrade you properly.

Unen_Stealthfoot · Post by **Unen_Stealthfoot** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:55 pm

[color=darkred:2o9tpgpx]Happy to oblige.

[/color:2o9tpgpx]

Eilistraee.com

Drow Deities

Re: Drow Dieties