Eilistraees realm in the demonweb pits.

Kirintha the Fair · Post by **Kirintha the Fair** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:57 pm

theirs been plenty of debate as wheither or not eilistrraee having such a realm is likely... or why she would...

but little talk as to what it would look like.

assuming that Ressurection didnt disrupt things so its a moot issue heres my idea. (note: Im assuming the main reason is so, if neccessary the whole pantheon could reach each other... since I think Eilistraee's practical enoguh to at times deal with the other members of the dark seldarine if she see's good reason.)

A Relatively Spartan drow mansion, in the traditional style, surrounded by gates of adamnite and mithril and iron.

The Evil trait of the demon web pits is suppressed within but not the chaotic one.

as eilistraee rarely visits it, its usualy ran by a Tunali seneschal, , along with help from a priestess or two.

Sound good so far?

Post by **Shir'le E. Illios** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 3:07 pm

I always imagined the place as being completely deserted.

But I can imagine some beings and things there to aid adventurers who want to use it as a starting point for going into the Demonweb Pits... and for those who need a save having from the Pits to go to (much like how the Promenade functions as a haven for adventurers going into Undermountain).

Love -x-x-x-

Shir'le

Nedylene · Post by **Nedylene** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:56 pm

You know i was wondedring that myself..I will be the first to confess that my grasp of the forgotten realms novels are poor becuase I do not read them.As you guys may have noticed my dm and I play faerun in a very different way then most people, but i do have the fairly new Faiths and Pantheons book, really good by the way, a must read and all it says about her home plain is Arvandor ( home of the elven pantheon) and the Demonweb pits in paranthesis...

Bhaern Quel · Post by **Bhaern Quel** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:44 am

The only way this kinda works, based on lore is that Lolth was banished and stripped of Divine natual, named a demon anyway (which in some ways could equal Divine livel 0 under thrird).

Vhaeraun and Eilistraee were banished as well (but there is no mention of them being named demon, perhaps they wre).

We do know Lolth gained Divine ranks, though the editions. There is no mention of Vhaeraun or Eilistraee gaining levels. Logic would indicate that the children held sway over a large portion of the Demon webs, just were linked to that plane now, perhaps the children contended with each other while mother started gathering power. My best sense of this and I have no lore to support this, id that both Vhaeraun and Eilistraee now control a small part of the Demon webs, that their linkage can not be seveved from that plane, until of course Lolth moved the whole bloody thing and made her own plane. Resurection came after F&P was printed. Eilistraee had another plance to go to, not sure what Vhaeraun would be able to do (he though does have to have a home plane).

All in all I guess it boils down to it is anyones guess, however 66 level no longer exists.

Post by **Shir'le E. Illios** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:25 am

Well, from what I understand it’s a big empty hole waiting to be filled at the moment. But then I still don’t recognize that WotSQ series until they clean up their mess.

Also, as I recall lore states that while the drow deities (Ghaunadaur and Vhaeraun mostly here) were off trying to get the drow to worship them (this is in the early years of the Crown Wars) Lolth was busy cementing her position in the Demonweb Pits. Only after she managed that did she get involved with the drow (and from my understanding the Crown Wars were well underway by then).

As for Eilistraee, I think the only reason that she has a realm in the Pits is because that’s the plane of the drow deities and she’s a drow deity. I’ve never seen anything that makes sense as to [i:2wski9ti]why[/i:2wski9ti] she’d have such a space. I can imagine that it might be the first place where she’d try to make a home after being banished (with Vhaeraun carrying her off), but would soon leave it as being too uncomfortable a place. Still, it might be useful to have a space in the heart of enemy territory to call your own, so I can see her at least keeping it alive.

Also note that AD&D lists her domain to be “Nidavellir/Svartalfheim”. These are realms from Norse mythology being the realm of dwarves and the realm of “black elves” respectively (and they’re noted as that they might be one and the same realm; “dwarves” and “black elves” are probably one and the same in Norse mythology). Near as I can tell Eilistraee, after being banished, went looking for a new home and found the Norse god Wayland (god of smiths and the smith of the gods) willing to share his realm with her:

[quote:2wski9ti](From [url=http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/9 ... m:2wski9ti]this page[/url:2wski9ti]):

Wayland is the god of smiths, and the smith of the gods. (Not my phrase, I'm afraid. Too clever for me.) He is especially associated with magical weapons, and is credited with having made Excalibur and many weapons belonging to the Celtic and Norse powers. He always appears as a lame man, in acknowledgement of a disagreement with some prime berk who thought it would be a good idea to pike off with a magic sword.

Wayland is associated with two realms: the first, Wayland's Smithy, is a subterranean hall in Asgard, from which passages lead to all the worlds where the Norse gods are worshipped. Entrances to it, both in Asgard and on the Prime, are marked by barrows and monoliths. Wayland is also credited with sharing Svartalfheim with Eilistraee, the only good drow power, although he's secretive about this. It's thought that Frey let him look after the drow, or Svart Alfar, whilst he looked after the Lios Alfar, the surface elves. Seeing as Elistraee's portfolio includes swordwork, this story doesn't sound so far-fetched.[/quote:2wski9ti]
Eilistraee’s sudden move back to Arvandor in 3E is actually a huge deal, because it means that for some reason her banishment is lifted. Seeing as this is a rather large part of her religion I’d love to see an explanation from Wizards for this. And maybe they can explain at the same time what her relationship with Shevarash (elven deity of vengeance and retribution, and hatred towards drow) is. Should make for a good story.

Oh, and I’m moving this to the religion section since this is, clearly, a religious discussion.

Love -x-x-x-

Shir'le

Bhaern Quel · Post by **Bhaern Quel** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 6:23 pm

I would have moved i if a could *G*

2nd Edition did have Drow with many Draven skills/abilities. Slooping tunnels, stone work, things like that related to living underground.

Eilistraee moving should not be a problem, though it would have been nice it was covered better in lore. She told daddy send me with my bother and mother because I did harm you, ir was perhaps just in some ways it was her arrow. She however could have also asked that her father lift the exile, basically Eilistraee self imposed on herself. Even in 2nd Eilistraee was allowed to visit with her elven sisters, trust level because of her skin does not make her welcome with open arms by all, but some appear to be close allies.

Wayland clearly would be a deity Eilistraee might seek to learn from as she forsaked the bow. I do see her keeping an eye of what she would consider the foes of the Drow in the Demonweb pits (her mother and brother, for that matter her nephew that she almost recuited to the side of good).

Kirintha the Fair · Post by **Kirintha the Fair** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:25 pm

One word "Simplification" and "unification" Of forgotten Realms cosmology.

To the POINT that Arvandor , the barrens of doom and despair, etc, are now their own planes.

Ryltar Freani · Post by **Ryltar Freani** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:34 am

My understanding of the cosmology here is that Eilistraee must keep some presence in the Demonweb Pits, because She is not a member of the Elvish pantheon (at least, not yet.) Lolth would know this, of course, so if Eilistraee left it undefended or abandoned, She'd immediately overrun it and destroy it. So it has to have some defense; there's probably a permanent presence there of celestial Drow loyal to her, or slaadi, or other similar creatures. In addition, Eilistraee is aware of what's going on there, so She can immediately go there if need be, or send additional forces to defend it. Though, of course, She actually lives in Arvandor, and would only return to the Demonweb Pits in the direst of emergencies.

If Corellon decides to fully allow her back in the Elvish pantheon, she no longer needs that realm, and Lolth can go ahead and make it into a spare bedroom for Her home if she wants, of course.

As for Shevarash: I've always been a bit annoyed that His portfolio says "Hatred of Drow", because, to me, any deity with "hatred" in its portfolio is well on the way to becoming evil (and not CN like Shevarash), if not there already. So I've personally amended it to "Defense against the Drow" for my purposes. Shevarash is Corellon's point man watching for movement against Arvandor by Lolth and her allies, and He advises Corellon on how to deal with threats from the Drow.

In Toril, Shevarash's followers often end up working closely with Eilistraee's followers, often lending muscle to their activity against Lolth-ites on the surface, or even on incursions into the Underdark itself. (And they do seem to like each other: one campaign I did had a Shevarash-worshipping Ranger Wood Elf and a cleric of Eilistraee falling in love. Oh well, got to reconcile the Elves some way, and that seems pretty effective.)

Post by **Shir'le E. Illios** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:58 am

Just an interesting note for the record… it seems that in the new Lady Penitent novel Eilistraee’s realm is described as being (still/back?) in [url=http://www.planewalker.com/encyclopedia ... 7:3bl75c2n]Svartalfheim[/url:3bl75c2n]. That plane held her realm back in 2[sup:3bl75c2n]nd[/sup:3bl75c2n] ed., but 3E changed it to The Abyss/Arvandor.

So I’m not quite sure [i:3bl75c2n]what[/i:3bl75c2n] to think anymore. Apparently she’s all over the place (as would befit a Chaotic deity).

Love -x-x-x-

Shir'le

Argoth · Post by **Argoth** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:27 pm

So, Eilistraee was banished from Arvandor. So how did she make it back? Is Corellon still mad at her, or has he forgiven her? He must have done so to some extent, as he would not allow her in Arvandor otherwise. And him beeing Chaotic (as I recall) makes him a little unrealiable. Should he suddenly have a flash back at what he suffored at the hand of his daughter, he would throw her from Arvandor. And then what? Fight her way in the Demonweb Pits, to find a place to rest? Don't think so.
I think she's keeping her place in the Demonweb Pits just in case Corellon desides not to forgive his daughter after all. Well, he is Chaotic after all. And me thinks she has an opportunity to simply spy (somehow) on her "dearest" mother. Although I don't believe it myself(I don't even recall anyone even saying she did), I see it as a possibility.

Bhaern Quel · Post by **Bhaern Quel** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:02 pm

[quote="Argoth":2v2458y3]So, Eilistraee was banished from Arvandor. So how did she make it back? Is Corellon still mad at her, or has he forgiven her? He must have done so to some extent, as he would not allow her in Arvandor otherwise. And him beeing Chaotic (as I recall) makes him a little unrealiable. Should he suddenly have a flash back at what he suffored at the hand of his daughter, he would throw her from Arvandor. And then what? Fight her way in the Demonweb Pits, to find a place to rest? Don't think so.
I think she's keeping her place in the Demonweb Pits just in case Corellon desides not to forgive his daughter after all. Well, he is Chaotic after all. And me thinks she has an opportunity to simply spy (somehow) on her "dearest" mother. Although I don't believe it myself(I don't even recall anyone even saying she did), I see it as a possibility.[/quote:2v2458y3]

Err, Corellon was never mad at Eilistraee (or was only for a short time).

[quote:2v2458y3]The daughter of Corellon Larethian and Araushnee (who later became Lolth), and the sister of Vhaeraun, Eilistraee was banished along with the other drow deities for her (inadvertent) role in the war against the Seldarine. Despite being absolved of any crime, Eilistraee insisted upon this punishment from her reluctant father, because she foresaw that the dark elves would need a beacon of good within their reach.[/quote:2v2458y3]

Investigation showed that Eilistraee did not intend to shoot her father, that her mother had enchanted her bow and/or arrow to go at her father then one of the foes attacking.

Thus it follows that the Dark Maiden being banished would be premitted to return any time she desired.

Argoth · Post by **Argoth** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:17 pm

So I'm just ignorant...

Bhaern Quel · Post by **Bhaern Quel** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:23 pm

[quote="Argoth":2kgvxf2a]So I'm just ignorant... :([/quote:2kgvxf2a]

It was not a bad question, Lady Silverhair was banished.

Of course since that time, she refuses to use a bow or other range weapon. She does not forbid them to her followers.

Unen_Stealthfoot · Post by **Unen_Stealthfoot** » Fri May 18, 2007 12:40 am

[color=darkred:bd2ac71e]Maybe a bow of true strike. : devil: That should prevent anymore accidents.[/color:bd2ac71e]

Rooky · Post by **Rooky** » Fri May 18, 2007 11:01 am

Our lady is incompetent.

Just like the rest of us...