Prisoners, slaves, and practicality?

Since the Chosen of Eilistraee is a religious oriented player group, naturally there is a place to have theological discussions. That is in-game religions; please leave real-world religion out of it. Debate the fine points of a certain dogma, how a church can enforce worship while staying true to its tenets or simply why one deity is better than another one is. All are free to talk about it here.

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Kirintha the Fair
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Prisoners, slaves, and practicality?

Post by Kirintha the Fair » Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:59 am

This can come up with ANYONE Really... but how do you think Eilistraeeans will view this issue?

Its really not workable, to run a prison in those days where people do nothing but lie around and eat.

So either Enslaving them (you can call it something nicer such as "indenture" if you want of course, but one can argue thats just hypocricy)

you can morally exhort them to change their ways, then let them go. (this can often times become exceedingly pointless, sadly)

you can execute them... (which is even more morally dubious especially if they'veshouted "I SURRENDER!"

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Aylstra Illianniis
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Post by Aylstra Illianniis » Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:48 am

Eilistraeeans would be VERY against keeping slaves. Halisstra in the WotSQ books was held prisoner by the Eilistraeeans who captured heruntil she was given the choice of converting or death. But for normal prisoners (meaning criminals), I believe they are put to work for a specified amount of time, then set free. once their debt has been paid.
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Bhaern Quel
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Post by Bhaern Quel » Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:00 pm

Dark portals does indicate prisoners are kept from time to time.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=fr/pg20021106a

[quote:2tf0l2js]Should an evil drow somehow use the portal, for instance by tagging along behind a good drow, the clerics deal with the interloper quickly by using hold person, daylight, and other nonlethal spells to bind and confuse their opponent. Once such an evil drow is captured, they are imprisoned by the clerics of Eilistraee to prevent them from harming the Dark Maiden's surface community. Should the evil drow present a mortal threat to the followers of Eilistraee or seem likely to escape, the clerics do not hesitate to employ more deadly force against their foe.[/quote:2tf0l2js]

It might be possible that one captured if not killed ot converted might be given some tasks to do.
The idea of slavery does not seem likely, oh a quest might be ordered as part of atonement, however for the most part those that come into contact are either considered friend or soon made dead depending on nature. Some though clearly would be held in hope of redeeming.

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Silasisann
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Post by Silasisann » Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:06 pm

Such a short question, such depths to think about!

Slavery, imprisonment and communal duty are all different things and are subject to different contextual interpretation (situation and practicality also) according to my understanding.

They may also serve very different purposes.

Slavery: In short, as a deity of Chaos and Good portfolios, it is almost impossible to think that Eilistraeean justice, warfare or economy would include enslaving others. But the question comes, where does slavery end and communal service begin? Where does slavery differ from being a vassal/familiar?
Slavery is, to simplify, for the benefit of the owner of the slave, without the slave's consent. To convert a Drow who's evil to the core may require something as drastic as forcing them to work with the Eilistraeeans (the other option being letting them go, which is not really an option; killing them, which is also not exactly what Eilistraee wants unless we're talking about no other options; or hoping that Eilistraee's avatar may appear and will have influence on the subject [ie. convert them], which doesn't always happen).

However, even through this forceful act, the Eilistraeean is working for the enslaved Drow's benefit. Is he truly a slave then? Or is he a student forced into his position temporarily? Remember that the end goal for Eilistraeeans is not restriction of others, but enlightenment, redemption and spiritual freedom. Or at least being united against outside threats (if we're speaking about CN priestesses/followers).

Imprisonment: there is again a difference between contemporary imprisonment and something like a jurisdictional punishment (ie. "life-long sentence"), and physical prison and not so physical. I believe a dangerous individual would be, like the much more veteran players here have uttered, locked up and away so they could not harm the community. However a prison requires manpower, resources and accommodation that a smaller Eilistraeean community may not have. Not to mention a Drow-to-be-redeemed won't learn as much when stuck in a dark corner as when being in the company of those who should serve as his example, yes? Again without direct intervention of the goddess, taking care of a prisoner (like with a "slave") can become a nuisance and will require constant watch, even if we disregard the need for a separate building. Then again this is the Eilistraeeans' job, isn't it? Finding a suitable ruin (like in the books I believe) or building something to function as a prison may suck more out of a community than properly disabling the to-be-prisoners and forcing them to immerse with the community.

One can be a prisoner without physical walls around them. A community deep in the forest may not even have to fear the prisoner trying to escape - how would he ever survive out there anyway? The deeper in the forest, the merrier. Still, disabling the Drow's ability to cast spells or fight would be prefered, definitely in the beginning.

Supervision/communal service: in my eyes this is the clearly prefered solution over either of the above. Eilistraee's purpose is to teach and bring back the lost. What better way to do this than by displaying kindness and showing how kindness must be performed, and what the benefits are from it?

Execution: for a goddess of redemption, dealing out death doesn't do much to enhance that desired image. Execution should be, as such, very rare. Evil that cannot be rooted out from a Drow is one such case. A Drow that does not even bow before the avatar of Eilistraee (the impersonification of benevolence!) is probably not going to be turning good any time soon and may well not be worth the effort and manpower the community can provide for his sustainance.

With all that said, not all good deities may have the same solution to the problem of crime/war criminals/etc. Think of Tyr or Moradin or Corellon. They will all favour and rejoice when a criminal turns into a force of good, but dealing out justice or preserving the existing faithful may be a higher goal than redemption (whereas Eilistraee thrives on redemption).

After that rant, in short:

Slavery: no

Imprisonment: yes, if not in a literal prison

Communal service: yes, definitely

Execution: as last resort

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Ra'Sona Races-The-Wind
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Post by Ra'Sona Races-The-Wind » Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:57 am

Well, it's an option I personally consider a hellish and disgraceful thing to do to another living person, but there's always the option to mind-screw them until they can't commit crimes any more.

There's plenty of magic users able to annihilate people's self-image in that manner, given time. They can be freed and trusted to behave because they're no longer capable of betraying that trust.

The drow live in a very inhospitable place, and good or evil the most practical approach does seem to be the universally adopted one. As many have said in defense of their actions, 'morals are all well and good for people who can afford to have them.'
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