Presundering, Eilistraeean worship

Since the Chosen of Eilistraee is a religious oriented player group, naturally there is a place to have theological discussions. That is in-game religions; please leave real-world religion out of it. Debate the fine points of a certain dogma, how a church can enforce worship while staying true to its tenets or simply why one deity is better than another one is. All are free to talk about it here.

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Kirintha the Fair
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Presundering, Eilistraeean worship

Post by Kirintha the Fair »

any guesses how worship of eilistraee, or other drow deityys, was different before the Sundering?

IM GUESSING She probaly had slightly more established clergy then, something more formal.
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Post by Aylstra Illianniis »

It's not completely canon, but I've a link that might shed some light- specifically in Myeritar before the Killing Storms. It was done by a poster over at Candlekeep, and there are several other good ones by him, as well, particularly the one on Ilythiir.

Here's the link: http://phasai.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d2moezs
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Bhaern Quel
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Post by Bhaern Quel »

Before the Dark Disaster might be a better question. Drow had nothing to do with the Sundering.

I am not sure it would have been that much a difference, except the religion was better known.
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Faediira
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Re: Presundering, Eilistraeean worship

Post by Faediira »

The link that fella posted was a great read however when did the green elves get thrown in with the dark elves and turned into drow. wow. Another thing I noticed was this according to the history of the realms his date for the descent of the drow is wrong as well...

-30,000 DR
War of the Seldarine
Araushnee is cast down into the Demonweb Pits, where she becomes the demon-goddess Lolth.
For his betrayal, the solar Malkizid (who served the whole Seldarine and seduced into betrayal by Araushnee) is branded (a constantly bleeding wound on his forehead, giving him the title "the Branded King") and thrown down into the Nine Hells by Corellon Larethian. There, he quickly rose in the hierarchy of Hell and soon controlled his own dominion (although, at some point later, he loses favor with Asmodeus and is exiled from the Nine Hells to take up residence in the Blood Rift, the native plane of the yugoloths).

He has it posted as -10,000 if this actually happened in 10,000 i'm going to have to do a lot of re-writing to my main chars timeline....and i do mean a lot.
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Irennan
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Re: Presundering, Eilistraeean worship

Post by Irennan »

[quote="Faediira":3tu1kgy0]The link that fella posted was a great read however when did the green elves get thrown in with the dark elves and turned into drow. wow. Another thing I noticed was this according to the history of the realms his date for the descent of the drow is wrong as well...

-30,000 DR
War of the Seldarine
Araushnee is cast down into the Demonweb Pits, where she becomes the demon-goddess Lolth.
For his betrayal, the solar Malkizid (who served the whole Seldarine and seduced into betrayal by Araushnee) is branded (a constantly bleeding wound on his forehead, giving him the title "the Branded King") and thrown down into the Nine Hells by Corellon Larethian. There, he quickly rose in the hierarchy of Hell and soon controlled his own dominion (although, at some point later, he loses favor with Asmodeus and is exiled from the Nine Hells to take up residence in the Blood Rift, the native plane of the yugoloths).

He has it posted as -10,000 if this actually happened in 10,000 i'm going to have to do a lot of re-writing to my main chars timeline....and i do mean a lot.[/quote:3tu1kgy0]

The descent happened after the Crown Wars (-10000 DR), not when Lolth betrayed Corellon (-30000 DR).

Miyeritar was populated by drow and green elves coexhisting pacefully and mostly devoted to Eilistraee and Sehanine. Apparently Corellon lumped everyone who was drow or their ally together and then cursed them (when 1)only Ilythiir should have been affected 2)they should have received the Aryvandaar treatment out of fairness, i.e. their leading houses should have been punished, not the population. You can't seriously say that the random commoner was ''ebil'', demon worshipper and so on, that's just stupid). What a smart guy, isn't he?
Last edited by Irennan on Sun Feb 01, 2015 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bhaern Quel
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Re: Presundering, Eilistraeean worship

Post by Bhaern Quel »

The Grand History of the Realms (as published by WoTC) is the first time that it was said Dark elves and Green elves were the same elves.

http://fr.dungeons.ru/file/A_Grand_Hist ... 052005.pdf is open gaming timeline that was precursor to the WotC publication. The publication is what said green and dark elves are all green elves.
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Irennan
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Re: Presundering, Eilistraeean worship

Post by Irennan »

[quote="Bhaern Quel":24ld0a6e]The Grand History of the Realms (as published by WoTC) is the first time that it was said Dark elves and Green elves were the same elves.

http://fr.dungeons.ru/file/A_Grand_Hist ... 052005.pdf is open gaming timeline that was precursor to the WotC publication. The publication is what said green and dark elves are all green elves.[/quote:24ld0a6e]


I read this:

[quote:24ld0a6e]ž Establishment of the first elvish settlements of Miyeritar
(Present Day: High Moor, Misty Forest), by green and dark elves
due to political differences with the gold elves of
Aryvandaar. [/quote:24ld0a6e]

They seem to be different to me :?
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Bhaern Quel
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Re: Presundering, Eilistraeean worship

Post by Bhaern Quel »

[quote="Irennan":g7x6oof9][quote="Bhaern Quel":g7x6oof9]The Grand History of the Realms (as published by WoTC) is the first time that it was said Dark elves and Green elves were the same elves.

http://fr.dungeons.ru/file/A_Grand_Hist ... 052005.pdf is open gaming timeline that was precursor to the WotC publication. The publication is what said green and dark elves are all green elves.[/quote:g7x6oof9]


I read this:

[quote:g7x6oof9]ž Establishment of the first elvish settlements of Miyeritar
(Present Day: High Moor, Misty Forest), by green and dark elves
due to political differences with the gold elves of
Aryvandaar. [/quote:g7x6oof9]

They seem to be different to me :?[/quote:g7x6oof9]

When it was written indeed Green and Dark Elves founded Miyeritar, only dark elves founded Ilythiir. The published by WotC added a few years and new lore.

From candlekeep

[quote:g7x6oof9] quote:Originally posted by Brian R. James


The Ilythiiri were but one tribe of the greater green elf population. Yes, they had darker skin than some of their green elf cousins but that is no different than various ethnic types of human found on Toril. From a D&D game point of view, “dark elves” did not become a statistically distinct race until the Descent of the Drow.



How recent or past is Dark Elves were Green Elves expained in canon?

Of course this does help explain a little bit why the surviving Dark Elves of Miyeritar were forced to Desend as well. [/quote:g7x6oof9]

and this
[quote:g7x6oof9]

quote:Originally posted by Kentinal

How recent or past is Dark Elves were Green Elves expained in canon?

The Grand History is the first sourcebook to establish this connection.
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
[/quote:g7x6oof9]

source http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?T ... hichpage=1
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Irennan
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Re: Presundering, Eilistraeean worship

Post by Irennan »

Oh, I see. So basically Dark Elves are Green Elves with darker skin. Nonetheless it is my understanding that Corellon's curse also targeted the survivors of Miyeritar and that included some of the Dark Elves with fairer skin, not only Ilythiiri.

Also, why do they have to mess elven subraces like this? It just creates confusion :/
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Faediira
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Re: Presundering, Eilistraeean worship

Post by Faediira »

Oh my goodness my poor head...ok that clears that up. I think. My next question is this were all the dark elves and green elves still running around on the surface then. Or were some forced off into the underdark before the actual cursing and descent.
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Bhaern Quel
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Re: Presundering, Eilistraeean worship

Post by Bhaern Quel »

[quote="Faediira":3p7ldy7n]Oh my goodness my poor head...ok that clears that up. I think. My next question is this were all the dark elves and green elves still running around on the surface then. Or were some forced off into the underdark before the actual cursing and descent.[/quote:3p7ldy7n]

Well Drow were created by the Descent. For some reason I recall some mention of Dark elves living in the underdark, though that might have been Grey Hawk instead of Forgotten Realms.
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Faediira
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Re: Presundering, Eilistraeean worship

Post by Faediira »

Oh i'm going to take a guess here that worship of Eilistraee had died down at that point or her worshippers found someplace to meet under full moon nights on the surface>
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Re: Presundering, Eilistraeean worship

Post by Bhaern Quel »

[quote="Faediira":2i4oiszw]Oh i'm going to take a guess here that worship of Eilistraee had died down at that point or her worshippers found someplace to meet under full moon nights on the surface>[/quote:2i4oiszw]

Before the Crown Wars Eilistraee had a strong worship in Miyeritar that was her area of most followers I would expect that indeed even then they met under moonlight. Though of course not as hidden as it is now.

The Dark Disaster (Which destroyed most of Miyeritar) resulted in the deaths of a large numbers of Eilistraee's followers, her worship declined. What is now known as the Twisted Tower was a temple to Eilistraee that even a slight spark of her essence could be detected as late as 1300 DR .
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Irennan
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Re: Presundering, Eilistraeean worship

Post by Irennan »

[quote="Bhaern Quel":2fe9ec0k][quote="Faediira":2fe9ec0k]Oh i'm going to take a guess here that worship of Eilistraee had died down at that point or her worshippers found someplace to meet under full moon nights on the surface>[/quote:2fe9ec0k]

Before the Crown Wars Eilistraee had a strong worship in Miyeritar that was her area of most followers I would expect that indeed even then they met under moonlight. Though of course not as hidden as it is now.

The Dark Disaster (Which destroyed most of Miyeritar) resulted in the deaths of a large numbers of Eilistraee's followers, her worship declined. What is now known as the Twisted Tower was a temple to Eilistraee that even a slight spark of her essence could be detected as late as 1300 DR .[/quote:2fe9ec0k]

Yeah. The Dark Disaster pretty much weakened Eilistraee to the point of temporarily reducing her worship to almost nothing, and then Corellon banished her followers alongside the other drow on top of it :(
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Faediira
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Re: Presundering, Eilistraeean worship

Post by Faediira »

Corellon just ain't to bright in my book. Really wish Eilistraee's arrow had made it to him and killed him. I don't like gold elves. Some of those houses were tainted with demonic blood as well. Yet Corellon did nothing about them and let them run around amuck. Go figure. Grrrrr. Oh pardon me! Did that sound a wee bit prejudiced toward the gold. Yes, yes it did. I like moon-elf and drow, avariel, and half-elves only of moon and drow variety.
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