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A suiter

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:51 pm
by Orin
Here's a question that might generate some interesting answers: Eilistraee is a melancholy and rather lonely Goddess. In that vein, who do you think would make a good match for her? Or who would choose to court her - or make the attempt? Who would she herself find most desirable?

I got the idea for this from reading the first part of Lady Penitent where she and Lolth are playing Sava. Lolth gets to basically act through Selvatarm, giving her a distinct advantage. Now I haven't finished it, so I don't know how that plays out, but I found the whole exchange very...as the Goddess herself said, [i:3oezeji2]unfair[/i:3oezeji2]. I found myself wondering whether she had like...an exarch or some such, like many other gods seem to. Then I thought, "What if another God found this as unfair as I do, and also thought Eilistraee was pretty ;) .

Actually, to be fair, I came up with an idea for a character that endeavors to become a God themselves for the purposes of making themselves an equal that they might be a match for the Dark Dancer. Then I thought that was too self indulgent and thought of this instead. :D

My first choice in FR was Melil, but as I understand it, he's pretty self involved. Then I thought it would be just adorable if it was someone completely unlike her, except for the important parts - like goodness and kindness. Like what if Torm, or like The Red Knight and she had a love at first sight thing going on. They have no idea why they like each other, but it just won't go away.

Anyway, that's my silly thoughts on the subject. What do you all think?

Re: A suiter

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:16 pm
by Irennan
[quote="Orin":hobno0d6]Here's a question that might generate some interesting answers: Eilistraee is a melancholy and rather lonely Goddess. In that vein, who do you think would make a good match for her? Or who would choose to court her - or make the attempt? Who would she herself find most desirable?

I got the idea for this from reading the first part of Lady Penitent where she and Lolth are playing Sava. Lolth gets to basically act through Selvatarm, giving her a distinct advantage. Now I haven't finished it, so I don't know how that plays out, but I found the whole exchange very...as the Goddess herself said, [i:hobno0d6]unfair[/i:hobno0d6]. I found myself wondering whether she had like...an exarch or some such, like many other gods seem to. Then I thought, "What if another God found this as unfair as I do, and also thought Eilistraee was pretty ;) .

Actually, to be fair, I came up with an idea for a character that endeavors to become a God themselves for the purposes of making themselves an equal that they might be a match for the Dark Dancer. Then I thought that was too self indulgent and thought of this instead. :D

My first choice in FR was Melil, but as I understand it, he's pretty self involved. Then I thought it would be just adorable if it was someone completely unlike her, except for the important parts - like goodness and kindness. Like what if Torm, or like The Red Knight and she had a love at first sight thing going on. They have no idea why they like each other, but it just won't go away.

Anyway, that's my silly thoughts on the subject. What do you all think?[/quote:hobno0d6]

Before answering your question, I'll just tell you 1 thing. If you like Eilistraee, I vehemently advise against reading Lady Penitent. First, because everything that happens in them has been entirely undone, and it happened merely as an editorial mandate coming from WotC to "make Drizzt moar speshul", not for story value. Second, Smedman and Athans have absolutely no respect whatsoever for Eilistraee or the drow pantheon, or the lore of the Realms.

They warped Eilistraee, they threw mud on her, on her lore, on what she stands for, they associated her with things that have never belonged to her (and that are flat out evil), they distorted and polluted her idea of redemption, they flat out contradicted the most fundamental parts of her character.

They turned her into some kind of militarist, merciless misandrist whose idea of redemption consists of atoning for what you are, an idea that is toxic, that also nearly excludes the whole drow race in the books, that simply defeats the very point of Eilistraee, and that makes absolutely 0 sense in the context of the Realms (as many others plot-devices used in those novels).

If you want to see a goddess that you like getting ruined like that, then go ahead and read those novels, but I'll just tell you that they were painful for me, and that they now no longer matter anyway. EIlistraee lives, and she's her own sweet self again.
------------------------------------------------------------
As for a companion for Eilistraee, I don't really see her having a fixed relationship with anyone. She's such a free spirit, she can love with such freedom and spontaneity that I picture her being able to enjoy moments of intimacy, tenderness, or simply affection to their fullest without the need to bind herself to anyone.

When you live as long as a goddess, your idea of love also changes just like your perception of reality. I picture Eilistraee as a goddess who can love many at once with intensity and unconditionally, and that the fact that she loves many doesn't diminish the value of her love for the single individual. Just like she does with the drow, she would love each for what makes them just themselves--a unique kind of love for each of them that comes from seeing the beauty that is unique to each of them, from knowing their dreams, their battles, and even the demons that they face.

I also think that the lines between romantic and non-romantic love could become blurred in many cases, because we're talking about a creature who can experience this sentiment is such a deep and spontaneous way, and who is *big* on freedom of expression, and one large part of romanticism and sex is that they are an expression of affection among the other things.

Besides, IMO, Eilistraee can love deities and mortals alike (in fact, why would she--who chose to be one of her people--restrict herself to deities)?

Honestly, I don't think that any god except maybe Torm would be an ideal fit for her. Among the goddesses, I could maybe see the likes of Lliira or Mielikki enjoying a pleasant relationship with Eilistraee. She's also close friends with Haela Brightaxe.

As for other gods finding Eilistraee desirable, well... she's a goddess of beauty, she literally embodies the drow concept of beauty, I think that many would find such a goddess to be desirable. The deities who could seek her company are, ofc, those who share interests or principles with her. So, the ones that I mentioned above, plus someone like Finder, maybe even Ilmater--since both he and Eilistraee greatly value compassion and fight to defeat suffering wherever they go (even if in quite different ways).

Re: A suiter

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:52 pm
by Irennan
Also, hmm, what about Erevan Ilesere. A non-malignant, eccentric trickster god full of flair and love for adventure. Shaundakul too has that love for adventure and discovery. They would fit well with Eilistraee's spirit. Especially her encouraging her people to "embark on a journey" (so to speak, but also quite literally) to rediscover the beauty of life, all that they have been missing on, and to freely embrace the sheer joy of existence. The thrill of seeing and the world and being filled with marvel in front of its wonders.

Re: A suiter

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:29 pm
by Orin
[quote="Irennan":4u9d27vv][quote="Orin":4u9d27vv]Here's a question that might generate some interesting answers: Eilistraee is a melancholy and rather lonely Goddess. In that vein, who do you think would make a good match for her? Or who would choose to court her - or make the attempt? Who would she herself find most desirable?

I got the idea for this from reading the first part of Lady Penitent where she and Lolth are playing Sava. Lolth gets to basically act through Selvatarm, giving her a distinct advantage. Now I haven't finished it, so I don't know how that plays out, but I found the whole exchange very...as the Goddess herself said, [i:4u9d27vv]unfair[/i:4u9d27vv]. I found myself wondering whether she had like...an exarch or some such, like many other gods seem to. Then I thought, "What if another God found this as unfair as I do, and also thought Eilistraee was pretty ;) .

Actually, to be fair, I came up with an idea for a character that endeavors to become a God themselves for the purposes of making themselves an equal that they might be a match for the Dark Dancer. Then I thought that was too self indulgent and thought of this instead. :D

My first choice in FR was Melil, but as I understand it, he's pretty self involved. Then I thought it would be just adorable if it was someone completely unlike her, except for the important parts - like goodness and kindness. Like what if Torm, or like The Red Knight and she had a love at first sight thing going on. They have no idea why they like each other, but it just won't go away.

Anyway, that's my silly thoughts on the subject. What do you all think?[/quote:4u9d27vv]

Before answering your question, I'll just tell you 1 thing. If you like Eilistraee, I vehemently advise against reading Lady Penitent. First, because everything that happens in them has been entirely undone, and it happened merely as an editorial mandate coming from WotC to "make Drizzt moar speshul", not for story value. Second, Smedman and Athans have absolutely no respect whatsoever for Eilistraee or the drow pantheon, or the lore of the Realms. They warped Eilistraee, they threw mud on her, on her lore, on what she stands for, they associated her with things that have never belonged to her (and that are flat out evil), they distorted and polluted her idea of redemption, they flat out contradicted the most fundamental parts of her character. They turned her into some kind of militarist, merciless misandrist whose idea of redemption consists of atoning for what you are, an idea that is toxic, that also nearly excludes the whole drow race in the books, that simply defeats the very point of Eilistraee, and that makes absolutely 0 sense in the context of the Realms (as many others plot-devices used in those novels). If you want to see a goddess that you like getting ruined like that, then go ahead and read those novels, but I'll just tell you that they were painful for me, and that they now no longer matter anyway. EIlistraee lives, and she's her own sweet self again.
------------------------------------------------------------
As for a companion for Eilistraee, I don't really see her having a fixed relationship with anyone. She's such a free spirit, she can love with such freedom and spontaneity that I picture her being able to enjoy moments of intimacy, tenderness, or simply affection to their fullest without the need to bind herself to anyone. When you live as long as a goddess, your idea of love also changes just like your perception of reality. I picture Eilistraee as a goddess who can love many at once with intensity and unconditionally, and that the fact that she loves many doesn't diminish the value of her love for the single individual. Just like she does with the drow, she would love each for what makes them just themselves--a unique kind of love for each of them that comes from seeing the beauty that is unique to each of them, from knowing their dreams, their battles, and even the demons that they face. I also think that the lines between romantic and non-romantic love could become blurred in many cases, because we're talking about a creature who can experience this sentiment is such a deep and spontaneous way, and who is *big* on freedom of expression, and one large part of romanticism and sex is that they are an expression of affection among the other things.

Besides, IMO, Eilistraee can love deities and mortals alike (in fact, why would she--who chose to be one of her people--restrict herself to deities)?

Honestly, I don't think that any god except maybe Torm would be an ideal fit for her. Among the goddesses, I could maybe the likes of Lliira or Mielikki enjoying a pleasant relationship with Eilistraee. She's also close friends with Haela Brightaxe.

As for other gods finding Eilistraee desirable, well... she's a goddess of beauty, she literally embodies the drow concept of beauty, I think that many would find such a goddess to be desirable. The deities who could seek her company are, ofc, those who share interests or principles with her. So, the ones that I mentioned above, plus someone like Finder, maybe even Ilmater--since both he and Eilistraee greatly value compassion and fight to defeat suffering wherever they go (even if in quite different ways).[/quote:4u9d27vv]

Ok, so first...I'm starting to see that what you said about LP and WotSQ is very true. I mean....I REALLY don't like criticizing the work of others, ever. I don't enjoy negative criticism myself, it makes me feel awful, but...there does seem to be a kind of disconnect. One of the things I realized when I read all of this was that WotSQ was the last series I read from FR. I'm not even caught up on all the Drizzt stuff and I love Drizzt! Anyway, yeah...kinda sad. I sort of like Q'arlynd though. Oh well. It doesn't really matter if, as you say, all of what happens is undone. I hate it when big IC's have to etcha sketch their own worlds because someone marred them.

I am very glad to hear that Eilistraee is back to her old sweet and cuddly self again too!

So....I agree with your entire second paragraph in full, which is why I almost didn't post this topic. I suppose that the title is a BIT misleading, as I don't know that I meant or said anything about tying down or marriage, but suitor might imply that. So, to be clear, I meant more as a lover or paramour rather than a spouse. That being said...I suppose I just thought it was cute. We don't actually get to decide who we fall in love with, so I just thought it would be hilariously adorable if she fell for someone like...I don't know, Arvoreen or something. Just funny is all.

You're right too. She would love whoever she chose, which seems to be everyone. I think that I was at first approaching this from the perspective of trying to find someone to help her against Lolth, as I found myself wanting to. I was trying to, fix the problem, as it were. That's how I tend to interact with any story. I place myself in it, and imagine myself acting as I would. It's why I tend to read slowly, because I have a rather vivid imagination.

Right? Who wouldn't want her? Another idea I'd had was a story of a bard that came to the same conclusion I did and said "Nope. We gotta figure this out!" fancying themselves a matchmaker, they went out into the planes in search of a companion for the Dark Lady. In one silly scene I saw him speaking to Tempos and telling the war god of her beauty, but Tempos knows her of course, as Svartalfheim is on a layer of Ysgard. Every time I thought of this I heard Tempos exclaim "SHE'S TOO SKINNY!" as he smashed some weapon or another into something that was in want of smashing.

Yeah, Torm would be a fine match, he's also a human deity, which might appeal to Eilistraee's desire for cooperation with surface races. You know I totally thought of Illmater, because while he's not LIKE her, their goals are almost identical. That would be another adorable match.

Anyway, yeah it's a bit moot because, as we've established, she'd love everyone and anyone who met or saw her would be enamored as well. It's a delightful cycle, I think. It's also just fun to play match maker. I still think it would be hilariously cute to have Helm - The Epitome of Stoicism and Discipline, be caught completely off of his guard by the beauty of Eilistraee. His mouth agape and his weapon held only loosely in his grasp as he watches her dance. In her mind she says "He's so stern and rigid. I abhor rigidity...so why can't I take my eyes off of him?"

It makes me giggle cry.

Re: A suiter

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:30 pm
by Orin
[quote="Irennan":1cun6cft]Also, hmm, what about Erevan Ilesere. A non-malignant, eccentric trickster god full of flair and love for adventure. Shaundakul too has that love for adventure and discovery. They would fit well with Eilistraee's spirit. Especially her encouraging her people to "embark on a journey" (so to speak, but also quite literally) to rediscover the beauty of life, all that they have been missing on, and to freely embrace the sheer joy of existence. The thrill of seeing and the world and being filled with marvel in front of its wonders.[/quote:1cun6cft]

See? It's fun!

Re: A suiter

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:58 pm
by Irennan
[quote="Orin":35b91bx1]

Ok, so first...I'm starting to see that what you said about LP and WotSQ is very true. I mean....I REALLY don't like criticizing the work of others, ever. I don't enjoy negative criticism myself, it makes me feel awful, but...there does seem to be a kind of disconnect. One of the things I realized when I read all of this was that WotSQ was the last series I read from FR. I'm not even caught up on all the Drizzt stuff and I love Drizzt! Anyway, yeah...kinda sad. I sort of like Q'arlynd though. Oh well. It doesn't really matter if, as you say, all of what happens is undone. I hate it when big IC's have to etcha sketch their own worlds because someone marred them.

I am very glad to hear that Eilistraee is back to her old sweet and cuddly self again too![/quote:35b91bx1]

Yes, it has been undone, but it didn't get what it deserved. There was no other novel to undo that crap, it was nearly retconned--it was in between a full-fledged retcon, and an event that undid it in-world. Long story short, WotC acted as if those things never happened, but also said: "oh yeah, the drow Pantheon is alive again, because something called The Sundering happened".

However, once you read that stuff (I mean Lady Penitent), and once you stop to think about it even for a second, you'll see how utterly hideous the implications are, and--at least for me--that ugly feeling sticked. Some scenes are also disgusting, and not because they are well thought, full of feelings, or w/e, but simply because you can almost feel the hostility and the hatred towards the characters. It was like not only WotC wanted to remove the drow gods, but wanted to do that in the most gruesome way possible while also sh*tting on all that Eilistraee stands for.

For example, even after [spoil:35b91bx1]Eilistraee is (only apparently, as we'd learn nearly 8 RW years later) gone, in the novels such a thing is just quickly dismissed. No empathy whatsoever, just a "oh, what a shame. Well, time to move on. Oh, also, she's no longer needed, because we all know that the whole race is beyond any kind of redemption". It also says that Eilistraee agreed with that idea, and that she considered only her (at that time)
current followers worthy of being helped, while the rest could just be left to rot.[/spoil:35b91bx1] I don't need to tell you how this utterly destroys her character--it was like I wasn't even reading about her. I just have no words to express how deeply that angers and pains and saddens me, even now that it has all been reverted. It simply hurt as hell. It was also basically an in-universe reflection of what Athans&Co wanted to do with the Realms: trash what people loved and replace that with what they thought was the "kewl" stuff.

So, ofc, keep reading if you want, but at least you'll do so knowing the kind of stuff that you'll encounter.

(Also, criticism is fine as long as you're telling the truth. When the authors disrespect a character and setting that they did not even create, when they do so just because they want another character to be the "most speshul evah" (they admitted that one of the goals was that, the other was to reduce the size of the FR pantheon), then they fully deserve criticism. There's a reason why those novels were entirely ignored by WotC until they had to undo those events).
------------------------------------------

[quote:35b91bx1]Right? Who wouldn't want her? Another idea I'd had was a story of a bard that came to the same conclusion I did and said "Nope. We gotta figure this out!" fancying themselves a matchmaker, they went out into the planes in search of a companion for the Dark Lady. In one silly scene I saw him speaking to Tempos and telling the war god of her beauty, but Tempos knows her of course, as Svartalfheim is on a layer of Ysgard. Every time I thought of this I heard Tempos exclaim "SHE'S TOO SKINNY!" as he smashed some weapon or another into something that was in want of smashing.

Yeah, Torm would be a fine match, he's also a human deity, which might appeal to Eilistraee's desire for cooperation with surface races. You know I totally thought of Illmater, because while he's not LIKE her, their goals are almost identical. That would be another adorable match.

Anyway, yeah it's a bit moot because, as we've established, she'd love everyone and anyone who met or saw her would be enamored as well. It's a delightful cycle, I think. It's also just fun to play match maker. I still think it would be hilariously cute to have Helm - The Epitome of Stoicism and Discipline, be caught completely off of his guard by the beauty of Eilistraee. His mouth agape and his weapon held only loosely in his grasp as he watches her dance. In her mind she says "He's so stern and rigid. I abhor rigidity...so why can't I take my eyes off of him?"

It makes me giggle cry.[/quote:35b91bx1]

Well, those were indeed funny scenarios to picture in my mind. Thank you for the hilarity :D

Re: A suiter

Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:15 am
by Orin
I'm really sorry that those stories filled you with such sadness and hurt. I honestly think that that is what happened to me after what I read in WotSQ. I was so upset with how it ended. I couldn't believe that they just ruined Halisstra, who WAS becoming one of my favorite characters. I understood that Lolth needed to live, but now that I think about it, it just seemed like the person that wrote the last book, wanted the readers to suffer.

It's why I've never really been able to go get excited about "collaboration". As a writer, I'm so emotionally connected to and protective of my worlds and characters, I can't imagine letting anyone else touch them. Let alone just handing a major world event to someone unfamiliar with the world they are writing in. I really feel sorry for Ed, as he seems to be really fond of Eilistraee and had to watch that unfold. It also makes me angry, because the fact that they wanted to get more attention for Drizzt means that a lot of anger is directed towards THAT character that is not really fair. Again, I don't think I read past Hunters Blades where he dueled Obould. So it might have gotten out of hand.

It also occurred to me that since I am now likely not going to finish that story, I think I'm going to pick up all the Elminster books, as I haven't read them yet.

Re: A suiter

Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:12 pm
by Irennan
[quote="Orin":mdsawwc8]I'm really sorry that those stories filled you with such sadness and hurt. I honestly think that that is what happened to me after what I read in WotSQ. I was so upset with how it ended. I couldn't believe that they just ruined Halisstra, who WAS becoming one of my favorite characters. I understood that Lolth needed to live, but now that I think about it, it just seemed like the person that wrote the last book, wanted the readers to suffer. [/quote:mdsawwc8]

Paul Kemp wasn't really at fault. The events were decided in the larger outline by Athans, with RAS offering help for Menzo, to make sure that things remained how he wanted them. The authors had to follow the outline (same for Lady Penitent). In short, the story was meant to bring absolutely nothing to the Realms. Even setting aside that Lolth's plan made 0 sense (it actually violated the logic of divinity in the Realms), at the end of the story everything was exactly like it began: no change within the drow society or mindset, no evolution, nothing except a destroyed city (andn that isn't a positive change, it only destroyed story hooks and possibilities and replaced them with nothing that we didn't have before). Those novels didn't add any lore, didn't open new plot hooks, didn't bring any menaningful change, and on top of that they threw crap on Eilistraee and her followers--even tho the latter part was also Smedman's fault.

When it comes to drow, she has a reputation for warping and/or completely disregarding lore--for example, males do in fact dance within Eilistraeean communities, but Smedman had males who even dare to watch a dance get effin' mutilated. The Eilistraeeans of Velarswood are known to be in a good relationship with the Selune-worshiping lycanthropes of the region, but Smedman had the priestesses mercilessly hunting any and all lycanthrope, because they were considered abominations to be exterminated--they even had that macabre trophy tree with the various heads hanging. That's simply not Eilistraee, at all. All those things get tenfold worse in Lady Penitent).

Back then, WotC had this new idea that no other drow character outside of RAS' cast could be interesting or anything but a cartoonish villain, and it showed in how they deleted any charismatic or interesting or unique drow character (including evil ones like Pharaun). They also had an anti-Realms stance, and--once again--it shows in how they did their best to remove nearly all the elements of the Realms that people loved, until they (literally) exploded the setting with 4e and the Spellplague (after the end of 3e, with things like Lady Pentinent, and the changes of 4e, the Realms became unrecognizable). 5e kind of rebooted everything, but it's like seeing someone you love getting killed and then raised as a pseudo-zombie.

[quote:mdsawwc8]It's why I've never really been able to go get excited about "collaboration". As a writer, I'm so emotionally connected to and protective of my worlds and characters, I can't imagine letting anyone else touch them. Let alone just handing a major world event to someone unfamiliar with the world they are writing in. I really feel sorry for Ed, as he seems to be really fond of Eilistraee and had to watch that unfold. [/quote:mdsawwc8]

Ed is very fond of Eilistraee indeed. When 5e was announced and was said to be intended to bring changes to the Realms, I e-mailed him about Eilistraee. He said that he was trying all he could to bring Eilistraee back alongside all the other deities that were getting restored, because EIlistraee is one of the deities that really means a lot to him, that he created for his own original world and that featured quite a lot in his home game.

Even tho this process met obstacles, in the end Eilistraee was restored too for 5e, and she's even getting a new temple within Waterdeep itself (not under it, within it. That was due to the Dark Maiden appearing in person under the walls of Waterdeep, to lead her people to the city and start rebuilding friendships with surface races. They received the support of the Harpers, and now the temple is being built).

[quote:mdsawwc8]It also makes me angry, because the fact that they wanted to get more attention for Drizzt means that a lot of anger is directed towards THAT character that is not really fair. Again, I don't think I read past Hunters Blades where he dueled Obould. So it might have gotten out of hand. [/quote:mdsawwc8]

I don't hate Drizzt. I don't find him particularly compelling, but I don't hate the character. I do feel a deep anger towards those who were so puerile and selfish to think that making one single character even more special (and he already was, he also had far more novels and exposure than any other character) was worth deleting tons of other characters and whole parts of the setting, while also doing that with spite and disrespect. To further reinforce the point that WotC just had a hatred of Eilistraee because of Drizzt, look at the Reader's Guide to Drizzt, written by Athans. It has a section on the drow pantheon, and yet is missing Eilistraee (and only Eilistraee) and this was before LP was even written.

To me, it was one of those childish behaviors, when kids that see other kids playing with toys just have to smash those toys, because no one but them should be able to have fun. And that is all more stupid, since they were doing so with things that they didn't create, that were someone else's work, but that they were using as a platform to launch their own stuff. It's like Tolkien suddenly expecting that all fantasy is trashed and smashed because he is the only one who should get to play with it, except that for WotC they didn't have the ability to say that they created anything.

[quote:mdsawwc8]It also occurred to me that since I am now likely not going to finish that story, I think I'm going to pick up all the Elminster books, as I haven't read them yet.[/quote:mdsawwc8]

It doesn't feel good to say what I said about those novels, especially to someone who is reading them, but--since you seem to like Eilistraee so much--I didn't want you to get burned. They were meant to harm Eilistraee and the drow in general, and to pigeonhole them into the narrow view that some dude at WotC had for them. They were not written to expand the story of the drow and their gods, nor they were written as a natural progression of that story.

For example, even tho the sava game was only a metaphor, accepting to take part to it makes no sense at all for Eilistraee. Forcing herself to play by Lolth's rules, and playing for a stake that has nothing to do with her goal. If Lolth were to die, that would lead to a huge bloodshed and to the drow generally flocking to demon worship or other dark entities, because the drow need to change and rediscover life before they can actually make a different choice.

Eilistraee's goal is to awaken that spark within the drow, to defeat Lolth by making the drow understand and therefore start forging their anew, one without Lolth. There's no other way for her to succeed. The fact that WotSQ and LP only focused on killing, killing, killing, and more killing is telling of the superficiality of those who wrote Eilistraee's arcs in those stories.

But then, the events in those books have no impact whatsoever on the current Realms anyway (except that some NPCs are still dead :( ), so they're not even needed to understand the current situation.

I really enjoyed the Elminster's books. They offer you a kind of insight into the Realms that no one else can offer, and even tho some people find Ed's style difficult to follow, you can really feel his excitement when he overloads the scene with characters, monsters, or magic, to show off all the cool things that he created for the setting. It makes me smile.

In any case, sorry for hijacking this thread. It was supposed to be lighthearted and fun, but I took it in a very different direction.

Re: A suiter

Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:14 pm
by Orin
[quote="Irennan":214yn0b8]
In any case, sorry for hijacking this thread. It was supposed to be lighthearted and fun, but I took it in a very different direction.[/quote:214yn0b8]

Hey man, don't sweat it.

I've been exactly where you are, about a number of subjects. I understand what it's like to watch someone take something that I love and disrespect it. It's like watching a lover in the arms of an unworthy cur who you know will just use them. I also know what it's like to feel so strongly about something that you can't help but talk about it and just for the record, I agree with you all of what you've said and I am grateful to you for warning me off of the series. You've saved me time, money and most importantly heartache. So thanks.

Besides, that's what this forum and Eilistraee are all about right? Free expression. So I am glad you expressed yourself and I hope you continue to do so, even if BOTH of us got a bit off topic. It's only digital data anyway, right? Just a few kb on some server somewhere. No worries.

Anyway, if it makes you feel any better, I just sent an e mail to Ed that was an absolute TOME about how Eilistraee saved my life and how important she is to me. In it I made many points, some of which may or may NOT have been appropriate for me to send to someone who is a complete stranger to me. I actually talked about Bob for a lot of it, but that was important for context. I also admitted to him that while I'd heard his name before, I've been enjoying FR for more than a decade now and still didn't know who HE was until like...earlier this year.

So if you're feeling embarrassed...uhhhh, me too!

It's nice to know that there is someone who cares about Eilistraee and FR as much as I do, too.

Re: A suiter

Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:37 pm
by Irennan
[quote="Orin":266kw720]

Anyway, if it makes you feel any better, I just sent an e mail to Ed that was an absolute TOME about how Eilistraee saved my life and how important she is to me. In it I made many points, some of which may or may NOT have been appropriate for me to send to someone who is a complete stranger to me. I actually talked about Bob for a lot of it, but that was important for context. I also admitted to him that while I'd heard his name before, I've been enjoying FR for more than a decade now and still didn't know who HE was until like...earlier this year.

So if you're feeling embarrassed...uhhhh, me too![/quote:266kw720]

I hope that he gets back to you (and if there's any non-personal content of his reply that you wish to share, you're obviously welcome to do it). He did when I e-mailed him, and he was very understanding, as he always is. When I read his answer, Eilistraee's fate was still up in the air, and what he told me comforted me immensely. So yeah, I hope that it will be a very pleasant experience for you as well.

[quote:266kw720]It's nice to know that there is someone who cares about Eilistraee and FR as much as I do, too.[/quote:266kw720]

Yes, it makes me glad indeed, so thank you for that as well :)

Re: A suiter

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:56 am
by Orin
There's something that I've wanted to mention for some time that I thought of when the site was down. Someone mentioned something about Elistraee not likely being interested in limiting herself to one partner - I actually very much agree with this. It was never intended that this Suitor be her only paramour at all and if that came across that way, then I was not thinking when I typed. This individual, in my mind, would be more akin to...maybe an exarch? They would be devoted to Eilistraee, or at least to helping her, if they weren't actually her exarch.

The whole "wouldn't it be awesome to be the Eilistraee" is great and all, but I'd originally thought up this thread because I was thinking about how lonely she seems, and how lonely she really is, and I felt the desire to deliver her from that. Then again, melancholy is kind of part of what makes Eilsitraee, Eilistraee.

Anyway, just wanted to clarify my thoughts here. Doesn't really matter.

Re: A suiter

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:40 am
by Irennan
One of the fascinating things about Eilistraee is that, for such a long time, she has been fighting alone against something bigger than her, yet she never let her light fade or dim. However, she's been doing that for millennia, so I don't think that gaining an ally or a partner who actually does *something* (unlike her current "allies") would make her less fascinating. Even though I picture Eilistraee as rather introvert and solitary, despite her dogma, it's in the nature of people to seek the warmth and confort of a firendly presence.

Re: A suiter

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:59 pm
by Orin
That's exactly what I mean. She seems to get almost no help even from her allies, and seems to help them quite a lot, as is her nature. I just kind of wanted to have someone, perhaps a deific being, simply notice this and want to do something about it. "I" want to do something about it and I can't be alone in that feeling. It's the same as how I feel about the Priestesses of Eilistraiee: They largely are ostracized and shunned by those that they help - and it says in their dogma to help everyone, even and especially those who are dicks to them. It's not a stretch to imagine that someone would see their struggle, especially after having been helped by them, and want to help.

Re: Eilistraee's Soulmate

Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:53 pm
by Oneiromancer
Orin wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:51 pmEilistraee is a melancholy and rather lonely Goddess. In that vein, who do you think would make a good match for her? Or who would choose to court her - or make the attempt? Who would she herself find most desirable?
Corellon is the father of the elfin bardic goddess of Spellsong magick, Eilistraee. Corellon is also the apotheosizer of the elfin bardic god of music and magick, Ye'Cind. Ye'Cind is Eilistraee's destined soulmate, and he already has her father's approval. Heartbroken with not being able to abate his self-exiled daughter's loneliness directly, Corellon did the next best thing: he found someone who could, with divine omniscience to assist his search to ensure a perfect match. (Further, Ye'Cind does perform a manner of Changedance, sometimes appearing as a female.)

Re: A suiter

Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 6:19 pm
by Irennan
I really doubt that Eilistraee would need her father's approval to choose a partner. With that said, while I don't exclude that Eilistraee would enjoy the company of Ye'Cind, what do we know about his ideals, personality, M.O. etc..? Eilistraee is a complex character; being a god of music doesn't automatically make him a potential soulmate. If you have other info about Ye'Cind, post them away; maybe he could really be a good soulmate for her.