Deicide in the Forgotten Realms

[Ra'Sona Races-The-Wind]

A lot of campaigns I've watched (and a few I've taken part in) have eventually moved in this direction, and I was wondering:

Varakhut aside, why don't mortals directly take up arms against gods more often? If it was as easy as it often seems to be in campaign, surely it would happen all the time?

Just how do the gods keep the super-epic-level mortals in line?

[Shir'le E. Illios]

By making those super-epic-level mortals (demi)gods so that they're not so inclined to have gods be easily killed?

Seriously though, super-epic-level mortals are supposed to be incredibly rare, if not unique. And most probably have other things on their mind than to go after gods (like trying to keep from being killed by the almost super-epic-level mortals).

I would also say that even for super-epic-level mortals killing a god shouldn't be easy but still damn near impossible. But then I never really understood the desire of playing these super-epic-level campaigns and going after deities.


Love -x-x-x-

Shir'le

[Argoth]

Me neither. My guess is deities simply let a super-high-epic-level-mortal-killing-piano fall from the sky...

[Ra'Sona Races-The-Wind]

[quote="Argoth":2tsr09bn]Me neither. My guess is deities simply let a super-high-epic-level-mortal-killing-piano fall from the sky...[/quote:2tsr09bn]

Sadly, deities can't do that. The thing is, at that level very few things can actually pose any kind of a challenge, and gods are one of a handful that are any use as a big bad boss, since the rest tend towards being mindless killing machines.

Currently in Pwdn's story (her appearance here is actually significantly past-event) she and her companion are being pursued by inevitables. Her for defying death's hold at every chance she gets, him for killing a god (one of Tiamat's subordinates).

Tough as nails, but they need a reason to come after you, so not much of an ultimate opponent. Her story arc is going to end with an Atropal; which to be honest is basically an undead god anyway.

My point is that gods are the perfect ultimate opponents, they are super-powerful, have a huge infrastructure of followers all laid out ready (important because the PCs never follow your carefully laid railroads if they can help it) and at least one of them will have a good reason for wanting your character to die.

....yeah, I like to play my characters right from level 1 to level 'OMGbroken.' >.>;;

[Zarae Zyne Kilanatlar]

my husband's RP once included his group stealing the tablets of fate. (back during 2nd edition rules). they were then sent to the abyss, had to fight the big bad guy. using the tablets, they became demigods.
of course they never finished their game. it got too complicated for their DM, he gave up when they tried to go after the ones who sent them down there.

[Talwyn Aureliano]

[emerges from the shadows]



Interesting topic.


For my part, I'm not all that keen on PC's gaining that much power that they become able to take out gods UNLESS the story calls for it.

To my mind the best way that's been handled in an RP setting was the Baldurs gate series CRPG where the protagonist could eventually "inherit" their fathers divine powers etc. Or, if they choose, they could stay mortal, be hellishly powerful but albeit mortal. That is the best way forward.
I think the thing here is that if PC's are becoming ludicrisly uber then the DM should encourage them to retire that character. Seriously, there is no fun in wandering around being untouchable and able to defeat anything thrown at them from the Monster Manual very boring

The reality of the situation is this: most characters should be thinking of retirement/settling down to build strongholds/chapels etc once they are in the 9-13 lv range. Fighters et al want to build castles and carve out a domain or become lords/generals in the nation/kingdoms armies, Priest MUST build at least a shrine which they then preach from, Wizards want to build towers and get a couple of apprentices and thieves set up thieves guilds. In fact this is where the real interesting RP starts as it's not about hack'n'slash any more but empire building. And as such, the high lv PC is not able to run off at the drop of an adventure hook because they now have comittments and responsibilities to take care of. This is where it becomes possible to start up new low lv PC's who now work or are henchmen of the high lv retired PC's and it's them that go out and do the heavy lifting so to speak. And if things get too tough, then the high lv's "may" be able to bail them out if necessary.

This is what happened in my now retired PnP campaign. The main PC's banded together, built a massive fortress complex that included a temple, a wizards tower surrounded by a fighters keep. A town soon developed and trade and prosperity soon followed.

So to all those out there that think they should be killing gods, remember this: even gods can't be killed off permanently
And if you knock of one god, then think of the consequences when the other deities decide that you're godslaying days need to end and they all gang up on the godslayer and rip them a new arsehole

[Inriiaynrae Jaelre]

thats what one of my characters did. she built her own rogue's guild/adventurers guild (not techically D&D).
then her niece began to adventure and work with the guild.
but soon she's gunna have to find something to do as she is getting up there now.

[Narsia Ny'Dhun]

[quote="Talwyn Aureliano":6t6gypyj]So to all those out there that think they should be killing gods, remember this: even gods can't be killed off permanently
And if you knock of one god, then think of the consequences when the other deities decide that you're godslaying days need to end and they all gang up on the godslayer and rip them a new arsehole [/quote:6t6gypyj]

Pfft. As if the gods of the Realms would actually set their pride aside long enough to ban together against anything. I'd say it'd be more realistic (heh, realism in fantasy...it can happen!) is to instead consider the mortal world consequences. Like what would become of the followers of the god you killed, how would you forever change the lives of the followers now left without any guidance. It's not actually all that easy to just switch gods to ensure your place in the afterlife. At least, I don't think it should be.

My favorite and most despised example of this point is what supposedly happens to our own kind when Eilistraee got knocked off and the supremely bullshit effects that followed.

Now I suppose that ICly your character would go after a god that they'd want to see put down anyway, right? Like, say, an elf of Corellon or however you spell Orlando's name going after Lloth. But I can just see some PC going after a random god just for the fun of it. Yeah, the Realms will always find someone to take up the mantle of a fallen god so I think looking to how it would affect the mortal world is the best way to determine consequences of such actions.

That being said? Unless the campaign really, really calls for it? I see no reason for your character to really even be thinking about how they themselves could put a stop to a deity they just don't happen to like.

[Talwyn Aureliano]

What I meant by my proposition that the Gods would smite an upstart mortal would based on the idea of a uber powerful mortal who went out on a diety killing spree would motivate enough of them to put aside there differences and unite in common cause which is self preservation and deal with said upstart in a short sharp manner.

I believe in the FR pantheon [before the WotC fuck up] that there were a number of dieties that worked well together, across portfolios and also racial lines. Thus I don't see why it would b e inconceivable to think that if a mortal got too big for their boots and began a pogrom on gods, that there'd be a posse rounded up to take down the miscreant responsible.

[Narsia Ny'Dhun]

I know. I was goofing with you.

[Talwyn Aureliano]

[quote="Narsia Ny'Dhun":1nvtv01m]I know. I was goofing with you. [/quote:1nvtv01m]


[img:1nvtv01m]http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2201/234 ... a2d7c9.jpg[/img:1nvtv01m]

[T'risstree Helviiryn]

[quote="Narsia Ny'Dhun":sbbxfdhd]I know. I was goofing with you. [/quote:sbbxfdhd]

*giggles*

Kudos Narsia