Eilistraee.com

I find it hard to imagine it not starting with some adventurer who had helped a shrine, or an asset in some other fashion, is ordained maybe as an act of desperation and to everyones shock Eilistraee actualy grants them spells.

I can not pin point any time in known lore that non elf first became priestess, that might be an interesting question for Ed Greenwood.
I could envision some first non elf could come from children rescued and raised by a priestess as one way one could choose to also become a priestess, follow adopted Mother's profession.
I do not see someone that even assisting or saving a shrine being granted spells just because of the aid. The person would have need to worship the Dark Maiden and clearly have a Patron Deity that if not her, one of her allied deities.

Lore does indicate that Eilistraee has sometimes granted spell effects to non followers. [quote:mqd10l45]Eilistraee sometimes manifests to a worshiper or nonworshiper who
honors her with a solitary dance as a silver radiance that transforms
the recipient's hair into a mane of silver fire for a month or even
permanently. Eilistraee has also been known to aid her worshipers by
providing a faint silvery radiance when they need to find something
dropped in darkness, or follow an unknown trail by night through dark
woods, or when childbirth occurs in darkness. She sometimes sends a
flutter of silvery swallowtailed moths to show her favor, join in a
dance, or lead her faithful that have become lost or need some
indication of the best direction to take.

In rare circumstances, males who worship Eilistraee-or beings without
any priest powers who work to further Eilistraee's aims and need her
visible blessing and support (or just some light)-will temporarily
manifest moonfire (see Eitistroee's moonfire below). Such
manifestations are at the will of the goddess; the lucky recipient has
no control over the duration, intensity, and location of the radiance.[/quote:mqd10l45]

[quote="Kirintha the Fair":1d0glszz]I find it hard to imagine it not starting with some adventurer who had helped a shrine, or an asset in some other fashion, is ordained maybe as an act of desperation and to everyones shock Eilistraee actualy grants them spells.[/quote:1d0glszz]

That would be the same as gaining a divine spellcaster class, and it's entirely possible if the person actually feels Eilistraee's call. Eilistraee has always accepted clerics of any race, according to Demihuman Deities. As of the Sundering (1490s DR) she also accepts male clerics w/o any need of the changedance, since the time that she spent with her brother changed her enough that males can now fully cleave to her and "feel her divine dance" w/o needing to turn into females.

changedance? Is this a dance that changes ones gender.

[quote="Kirintha the Fair":35x9cmpv]changedance? Is this a dance that changes ones gender.[/quote:35x9cmpv]

Yes change dance is required as part of ritual that allows a male to be a Priest of Eilistraee. As Ed explained it, every time a male performs it he most often retains a female gender a longer time.

From Ed [quote:35x9cmpv]The most accomplished drow, elf, half-elf, and human male priests seem to feel the need to take female form for some days every few years or so (if they wish to “cleave more fully to the Goddess” and thus rise in levels), and most spend longer and longer times in female form.[/quote:35x9cmpv]

Pulled from mcp.php?i=main&mode=post_details&f=6&p=5962

Yes. Before the 1370s DR, males couldn't become clerics (or at least they couldn't rise in levels), as--given Eilistraee's nature of mother goddess (as in mothering and taking care of the whole drow race), even with some hints of goddess of fertility, according to Ed--one could only really feel her, except as a female. At some point Eilistraee decided that she wanted to open up to males by allowing male priests, and made the changedance availbale to those males who really wanted to become her clerics. As Bhaern said, at some point those males even felt the need to spend more and more time as females, because they could cleave more deeply to Eilistraee. This lore was entirely introduced by Ed, and while still canon (as what he says is canon, because of his contract), it can't be found in any book.

However, spending time with Vhaeraun changed Eilistraee and apparently made her closer to males, since, after her return, they can now fully cleave to her w/o any transformation.

well cool but, thoughts on the whole idea, of the ordination of a human as priestess was done in desperation millenia ago, and they braced themselves to be smited for their heresy, instead, Eilistraee actualy granted them spells, and seemed to ok it.

Why would it be a heresy? Eilistraee has always promoted acceptance and harmony among all races, it's like one of her main ideals: "Eilistraee is forging her own path, one that welcomes beings of all races who revel in life and the free form expression of all that entails."

I would personally be puzzled, if followers of Eilistraee feared to be smitten as heretics for including humans in the clergy, or if they feared to be smitten at all, since Eilistraee is known to never do that kind of thing or to force any decision upon her people. She's present, yes, but subtle and delicate in her actions. I even remember one of her priestess saying that Eilistraee doesn't do stuff like testing or smiting her followers, as the challenges of life are enough of a test themselves, and as she values the intent behind their actions more than the actual success.

The way that I see it there is a difference between what the deity stands for and what the clergy understands. As such I can definitely see the more conservative part of the clergy being opposed to allowing non-elf members into the clergy. They might reason that being welcoming is one thing, but handing them the keys to the kingdom quite another. After all, for any follower, including the clergy, it is a process of gaining understanding.

I personally feel that the whole "allowing men into the clergy" bit falls under that as well, that it wasn't so much Eilistraee who stopped them from joining, but the clergy who saw her as a mother goddess. And now that it's clear that they [i:3a3mo7ya]can[/i:3a3mo7ya], some might feel they need to rationalize that with "she got that from Vhaeraun".

Again, this is my personal interpretation and it's quite possible that there's lore that contradicts this. Particularly considering how in the FR a deity could always manifest in some way to clear up any confusion.

In the end though it, to me, always seems less interesting what's actually true than what's perceived to be true. The story of the first non-elf joining the clergy could be quite an interesting one.


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Shir'le

Sure, reactions change from individual to individual, and some are bound to be wary of non-elves joining the clergy, but it's definitely not heresy material, as far as I can see.

I agree that the story of the first non elf cleric would be interesting: they would likely face indifference or lack of trust from a part of the elven clergy, but I really don't think that punishment or violence would be involved--especially if Eilistraee herself shows her trust by granting them spells.

As for the male clergy, I initially thought that too, but--given the need of the changedance--I guess that there was some actual barrier preventing males from becoming priests as such. I don't think that it was something that Eilistraee did on purpose: reading Ed's words (one can only feel the divine dance of Eilistraee as a female) it seems to me that it was actually tied to her nature. Although Ed didn't explicitly say that Eilistraee got the ability to have male priests from Vhaeraun. That was my interpretation of it, seeing that it happened just as Eilistraee and Vhaeraun stopped fighting each other, and considering the huge increase in male priests that Eilistraee had when she became the Masked Lady (i.e. when she had Vhaeraun's divinity).

I could imagine a priestess looking up from a parchment going "WHAT!?!? She would author such blasphemy" then continues reading utterly belittled that the dark maiden actually granted her spells. then probaly trys a commune or such to figure out WHAT THE HELL is going on

Specificly once she Research to ascertain that its not some kind of trick... with spells granted by another god ala Vhaurens masked traitors, I think they'd be grudgingly accepting, if perhaps a little reluctant to see them promoted in the clergys hierchy.

Some priestesses could do that. I think that if the non-elf cleric can manifest the Moonfire, then there would be little doubts about Eilistraee's will, given that she's the only goddess in Faerun who grants that specific spell.

fair enough I think it says Sehanine also grants it in demihuman deitys

but Shes even less likely to bless a human

I think that On one hand they'd accept eilistraees will as divine.

on the other in the first generation their will likely be a... unpleasant attitude.

on a similar note, I could see some surface elves, even those who accept intellectualy the reality of eilistraees faith and that it isnt a front for anything or any other bullshit like that, might be snide, at another surface elf who choose to follow eilistraee with a sentiment of "Leave redemption to those who need it!"

[quote="Kirintha the Fair":3rsrcpso]on a similar note, I could see some surface elves, even those who accept intellectualy the reality of eilistraees faith and that it isnt a front for anything or any other bullshit like that, might be snide, at another surface elf who choose to follow eilistraee with a sentiment of "Leave redemption to those who need it!"[/quote:3rsrcpso]

Eilistraee is not a deity of redemption, tho (well, not just, or mainly). She stands for acceptance, for creating harmony among all races, for helping all those who are in need, and for just making life flourish. Dance, music, spreading joy, beauty (which she is a goddess of) are all appreciated among elves (or most races, really), so becoming her follower isn't automatically a sign of seeking redemption.

It could simply mean wanting a world in which all people coexist peacefully and stand united against suffering, or wanting to enjoy life and helping others to enjoy it, or being an artist and a lover of beauty. Eilistraee stands for many beautiful ideals, and many more than just drow can find something that they share with her.

Redemption is something that comes after, IMO. If we look at Eilistraee's lore (before Lisa Smedman threw the word redemption everywhere), redemption isn't even mentioned, it's more about helping the drow to embrace and rediscover life: redemption naturally comes later (but you can't convince the drow to abandon their old life by telling them that they have to redeem themselves, nor it is supposed to be Eilistraee's modus operandi. Like, at all).