The Sundering is actually going to bring back all the gods

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Irennan
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The Sundering is actually going to bring back all the gods

Post by Irennan » Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:55 pm

Yes, that should include Eilistraee and Vhaeraun. I found something interesting at CK and wanted to repost it here:


[quote:18liztj2]
Originally posted by ErinMEvans:

(...)
Among the secondary/tertiary characters, there is... Chosen of Vhaeraun...[/quote:18liztj2]

[quote:18liztj2]
[b:18liztj2]Question[/b:18liztj2]:

Hi Erin,

I am a little curious here how there could be a fully-powered Chosen of Vhaeraun, given that Vhaeraun is... well, dead.

Unless this is an indication that V and his sister are back. When Mystra was dead, Elminster and the remaining seven sisters had their Chosen powers seriously fubarred. So is this a little hint?''


[b:18liztj2]Answer[/b:18liztj2]:

Wait, what? Vhaeraun is dead? Oh holy crap, why didn't anyone tell me?

(Sorry. That was funny in my head.)

Good catch! This is what I would call one of the hints as to what is happening in the larger story. As I believe has been said elsewhere, the gods are all coming back, and here is some proof of that (among others...). And I was quick and snatched Vhaeraun. [/quote:18liztj2]

I've asked if the same holds true for Eilistraee, since her brother is not [i:18liztj2]dead[/i:18liztj2] anymore and they and their goals are deeply related (they even fused into a single entity at some point). Currently waiting for an answer.

I'm not getting hyped about it, but after the recent WotC's choices regarding the siblings and their efforts to ignore them, this is a [i:18liztj2]neat[/i:18liztj2] improvement.
Last edited by Irennan on Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The Sundering is actually going to bring back all the go

Post by Bhaern Quel » Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:27 pm

Well that does sound interesting, I am still going to wait before I am sure.

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Re: The Sundering is actually going to bring back all the go

Post by Irennan » Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:44 am

The answer I received is:

[quote:2gfoy6it]
[b:2gfoy6it]Question:[/b:2gfoy6it]

My apologies for cluttering this discussion, but do you know if a little something or hint regarding Eilistraee and her plans will make its way through the Sundering story? (since at this point it looks like Vhaeraun isn't dead anymore, I'm assuming that the same holds true for his sister, given how related the two of them and their goals are -even more so that at some point they fused into single entity-).

[b:2gfoy6it]Answer:[/b:2gfoy6it]

So I can't say for sure? With the last three books, I haven't gotten to see the final draft of any of them, and not even the first on The Sentinel or The Herald. A lot can change between the outline and the final book (Case in point: There was no Chosen of Vhaeraun in my outline. Also no Nameless One. And no Fountains of Memory. Also, Lorcan was a total dork.) As well, the next books in these series will, in some cases, continue during the Sundering.

But yes, I completely agree: even watching what's happening through the experiences of the mortals who worship E &/or V has a lot of fascinating implications. This is one reason I am happy this isn't a POV character--what exactly is going on is still wide open for another story which can accommodate a lot more detail.[/quote:2gfoy6it]

Idk how to feel about this. It sounds like they're actually bringing back the full realmsian Pantheon, but in a very vague fashion (meaning that we may or not see lore regarding many of the deities, including Eilistraee and Vhaeraun. Basically, nothing new. Meh...)

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Re: The Sundering is actually going to bring back all the go

Post by Shir'le E. Illios » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:37 am

I'm still keeping a wait-and-see attitude to the whole thing.

I've got the strong sense that they're going to sever the connection between deities and mortals. As in the mortals have no idea which, or even if, deities exist. As opposed to how it's been until now where mortals known beyond a doubt which deities exist.

I think that's not a bad thing on the face of it. I think that it makes for more interesting stories and roleplaying. Battles of faith can then be more than just actual, physical battles and become more battles of convincing people of unprovable things.

Of course the question is how long they can keep that up. Lots of people [i:1a9qnb0j]like[/i:1a9qnb0j] having a direct connection to deities (just see the popularity of being a "Chosen" with deity-granted powers). And for many there's an appeal in having an endgame goal of defeating this-or-that deity. So I wonder whether WotC can keep up the separation. But anyway.

Of course for us the main problem is that it doesn't answer the question that we're really interested in. After all, we don't just want to see Eilistraee back, but also being part of canon again, also getting new material again. I think that in many ways we want some assurance that Eilistraee and her clergy will pop up again in the official published stories and the new source books. Because without that we really don't have anything more than we have now.

If in the new Forgotten Realms sourcebook it doesn't include a list of deities with Eilistraee among them, then I don't really see how the situation has improved in any way from what we have now.

But then, we know all of that already.

Still, that they at least mention Vhaeraun seems hopeful. We just have to wait and see. :)


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Re: The Sundering is actually going to bring back all the go

Post by Irennan » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:59 am

Idk about severing the contact between mortals and deities. Maybe that was the original plan, but according to what I've read around, it looks like [i:d7e9raqd]every[/i:d7e9raqd] god (alive, dead, forgotten w/e) had some kind of backup plan in storing part of him/her/itself in a bunch of random chosen (like Bhaal did with the Bhaalspawn), and that they are going to pop up like mushrooms during the Sundering (I mean, Netheril created some sort of chosen concentration camp...).

On the other hand it looks like they're going to leave things vague, tho. Vhaeraun was mentioned because ''the gods are all coming back'', and Erin -the author of ''The Adversary''- decided to ''snatch him'', rather than because of some specific change that the drow are going to undergo during the Sundering, or plan that the Masked Lord and/or his sister might have down (or at least this is what I got from what Erin said).

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Re: The Sundering is actually going to bring back all the go

Post by Zekafae » Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:20 am

I see all and because of how it's written it leaves it very open for any god whom was killed is brought back. Eilistraee is basically a savior to the drow whom aren't evil, so it's highly possible that she'd return and become perhaps the patron(matron) deity for many dark elves whom live on the surface and broke away from the Lolthite religion. And because it's so vague they can't say"well no this god can't join because of x" Well you just said all and you're vague, so I'm calling you out on because you printed it as thus this is the deal. All means all not some and not others. Because she has such a huge following, to alienate a portion of the fanbase IE customers who pay money and make the company money.. it stupid and like shooting yourself in the face with a shotgun.

While wizards is doing whatever they're doing, I'll keep working on my own little world. The only thing I doubt I'll ever be able to do is create languages..since tolkein created elven and all current elven languages are based off his sooo... he basically boned all future fantasy writers whom try to reach his level. Well played on his part intentional or not.
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Re: The Sundering is actually going to bring back all the go

Post by Shir'le E. Illios » Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:58 am

[quote="Zekafae":3ul8t1vv]The only thing I doubt I'll ever be able to do is create languages..since tolkein created elven and all current elven languages are based off his sooo... he basically boned all future fantasy writers whom try to reach his level. Well played on his part intentional or not.[/quote:3ul8t1vv]
It should definitely be possible to create new languages. Though one might need some linguistic background (which, in fairness, I think Tolkien actually had). For example, if I'm not mistaken BioWare had hired a linguist to create languages for their Dragon Age setting.

And of course you can always fib it (also known as "make shit up" ;) ).


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Re: The Sundering is actually going to bring back all the go

Post by Zekafae » Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:36 am

[quote="Shir'le E. Illios":3ix9um05][quote="Zekafae":3ix9um05]The only thing I doubt I'll ever be able to do is create languages..since tolkein created elven and all current elven languages are based off his sooo... he basically boned all future fantasy writers whom try to reach his level. Well played on his part intentional or not.[/quote:3ix9um05]
It should definitely be possible to create new languages. Though one might need some linguistic background (which, in fairness, I think Tolkien actually had). For example, if I'm not mistaken BioWare had hired a linguist to create languages for their Dragon Age setting.

And of course you can always fib it (also known as "make shit up" ;) ).


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Shir'le[/quote:3ix9um05]
Tolkein by profession was a full blown linguist, he was friends with Lovecraft from what I understand, so they probably threw ideas back an forth. Oh yeah I can fib and BS my way to making a language and pick and pull apart things to create my own... I might just start disecting Drow, Draconic, and Elven languages and forge my own. One language should be a Dragonic/Elven Mix anyway for the series of races I have in mind. I do need to find Dwarven as well. Though I might change the Elven language around some but one name for a character in mind is an interesting and painfully long one. The last name basically is where she's from. A forest so vast it could take up bout at least half of the Faerun main landspcace if not encompass it entirely. Trees so tall elven cities could be carved into them and the tree shrugs it off without issue. Imagine the Sequioa 10 times taller and perhaps even wider. Known as the sea of green for a reason, that is a world I'm working on building, and it'll be a world that if I can get enough of it done language aside, I'll have a document that is game ready that could kill many of the current games and make Faerun look like an island. That, college and gaming have been what I've been working on.
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Re: The Sundering is actually going to bring back all the go

Post by Irennan » Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:30 am

You are quite confident about your world, beating Faerun in terms of details isn't an easy task at all :p

It sounds like you put a lot of effort in this project, and I must say that it got me curious. If you somehow manage to have it published, I'll surely give it a try.

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Re: The Sundering is actually going to bring back all the go

Post by Irennan » Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:32 pm

With the latest Sundering book, Kiaransalee makes an appearence too (well, it's just some character who ''called upon her'' and nothing more, still...).

This means that the Drow deities are getting some attention, the only two MIAs are Eilistraee and Selvertarm.

At this point, I guess that they may get mentioned in some other book, which is a good thing, but I really hope that they don't go on with that ''sacrifice'' BS about Eilistraee. It really didn't make any sense, she accomplished basically nothing that her people needed with it -and nothing that they couldn't do as drow- (probably they were happy to be drow and didn't even want that), while turning her back to the vast majority of the ones who needed her. That's just not Eilistraee...

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Re: The Sundering is actually going to bring back all the go

Post by Shir'le E. Illios » Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:28 am

[quote="Irennan":3hjfw9sa]At this point, I guess that they may get mentioned in some other book, which is a good thing, but I really hope that they don't go on with that ''sacrifice'' BS about Eilistraee. It really didn't make any sense, she accomplished basically nothing that her people needed with it -and nothing that they couldn't do as drow- (probably they were happy to be drow and didn't even want that), while turning her back to the vast majority of the ones who needed her. That's just not Eilistraee...[/quote:3hjfw9sa]
I got the impression that they both wanted to return to what was and keep the changes they made since 4E. Something about not wanting to confuse people who bought into the 4E lore or something. At least that came up in a discussion about why they didn't just roll back to pre-4E.

Which to me feels like they just have more broken pieces they're trying to glue together.

At one point I also had the impression that they would try to keep multiple time periods active (pre-Time of Troubles, pre-Spellplague and post-Spellplague) but that doesn't really sound any better.

I'd almost have more respect for them if they put their foot down and said "no, post-Spellplague is how it is and we're not going to undo anything this time no matter how unpopular". I wouldn't buy into anything they'd want to sell me ever again, but I'd have more respect for them. Because I can't shake the feeling that now they're trying to please everyone at once and that's just going to end up with everyone being disappointed.


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Re: The Sundering is actually going to bring back all the go

Post by Irennan » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:41 pm

[quote="Shir'le E. Illios":37zook56][quote="Irennan":37zook56]At this point, I guess that they may get mentioned in some other book, which is a good thing, but I really hope that they don't go on with that ''sacrifice'' BS about Eilistraee. It really didn't make any sense, she accomplished basically nothing that her people needed with it -and nothing that they couldn't do as drow- (probably they were happy to be drow and didn't even want that), while turning her back to the vast majority of the ones who needed her. That's just not Eilistraee...[/quote:37zook56]
I got the impression that they both wanted to return to what was and keep the changes they made since 4E. Something about not wanting to confuse people who bought into the 4E lore or something. At least that came up in a discussion about why they didn't just roll back to pre-4E.

Which to me feels like they just have more broken pieces they're trying to glue together.

At one point I also had the impression that they would try to keep multiple time periods active (pre-Time of Troubles, pre-Spellplague and post-Spellplague) but that doesn't really sound any better.
[/quote:37zook56]

Yes, that's basically what they're trying to accomplish. As for supporting multiple timelines, that's not going to happen IMO. How many FR supplements were published during 4e? AFAIK that's only 3 or 4, restricted to single cities. Also novels were released at a slower rate (which is slowing down even more). There's no way they'd invest resources into new lore for various eras.

[quote:37zook56]
I'd almost have more respect for them if they put their foot down and said "no, post-Spellplague is how it is and we're not going to undo anything this time no matter how unpopular". I wouldn't buy into anything they'd want to sell me ever again, but I'd have more respect for them. Because I can't shake the feeling that now they're trying to please everyone at once and that's just going to end up with everyone being disappointed.


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Shir'le[/quote:37zook56]

I feel that it is right to try to fix lore problems w/o deleting the meaningful content that came during 4e, and it is kinda necessary, considering the stupid (yes, stupid) stuff they pulled out for the transition (like the Mystra being murdered once again, the world going BOOM, Eilistraee's pseudo-suicide, or the Helm divine love triangle thingy). I don't believe that something like ''lulz all the cataclysms were Ao's plan to teach the gods a lesson, and now he decided to fix evrything like np'' will accomplish anything, tho...

At this point I will be happy if they decide to fix what they did to the drow, but I find myself caring less and less about what WotC does.

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Re: The Sundering is actually going to bring back all the go

Post by Shir'le E. Illios » Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:17 am

[quote="Irennan":pu9d7lda]At this point I will be happy if they decide to fix what they did to the drow, but I find myself caring less and less about what WotC does.[/quote:pu9d7lda]
Pretty much, yes. I feel like I've moved on and it would be up to WotC to convince me to come back (of which they're doing a lousy job so far).


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Re: The Sundering is actually going to bring back all the go

Post by Alaric Darkrose » Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:21 pm

While this whole thing sounds like a cop-out, but I'll bite. I haven't been into Forgotten Realms since 4E came out. I'm skeptical and not putting too much faith in the new FR, but I'll look at the silver lining: the only deity from the setting that I cared about is back.
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Re: The Sundering is actually going to bring back all the go

Post by Regcod » Wed May 21, 2014 2:03 pm

Following the wotc idea, I think that could be also plausible a return of Eilistraee but like a 'Dark Elf' or rather not contamined like her freed followers : 'Dark wood elves'.

But I haven't so much faith, because all the drow pantheon has been cleared for make more room for Lolth and only her evil follower, so I fear that also the 5.0 FR version would not contemplate Eilistraee sadly. This is a shame beacuase her 'image' isn't replaceable by another one. Look like that nowadays it's more interesting having a lot of evil deities (Myrkul look like will be back) instead of really positive one... :roll:

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