A comparison of Design.

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Leema Har'gachi
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A comparison of Design.

Post by Leema Har'gachi » Wed Mar 02, 2016 6:46 am

I mentioned (I think it was a few weeks back) how I was having problems deciding what direction to take my Dimension Project. Well, slowly over the last few weeks I've been doing some slight redesigning of the classes and I would like you guys opinion on which design you prefer between my 1.1 version fighter class and my 2.0 version fighter. Keep in mind, that if I make all my classes like the 2.0 version I will be adding varients/ archtypes as a kit base system that anyone can take to add to the class.

Version 1.1 fighter

Fighter
Creating a fighter, when you create a character whose first level is cleric you gain the fallowing traits.
[b:3f74xhqz]Starting Ability Adjustment[/b:3f74xhqz]: +1 to strength, dexterity, or constitution.
[b:3f74xhqz]Starting Hit Points[/b:3f74xhqz]: 10 + constitution modifier.
[b:3f74xhqz]Starting Armor Proficiencies[/b:3f74xhqz]: Light, medium, and heavy armor with shield.
[b:3f74xhqz]Starting Weapon Proficiencies[/b:3f74xhqz]: Simple weapons and four weapon proficiencies slots.
[b:3f74xhqz]Starting Skill Points[/b:3f74xhqz]: 4 skill points at 1st level.
[b:3f74xhqz]Starting Money[/b:3f74xhqz]: 5d4 x 10.

Class Features
[b:3f74xhqz]Hit Dice[/b:3f74xhqz]: 1d10
[b:3f74xhqz]Prime Ability[/b:3f74xhqz]: Strength
[b:3f74xhqz]Weapon Proficiencies Slots at Higher Levels[/b:3f74xhqz]: One weapon proficiencies slot at 3rd level and every three level afterwards.
[b:3f74xhqz]Skill Points at Additional Levels[/b:3f74xhqz]: Two skill points per level after 1st level.
[b:3f74xhqz]Skill Proficiencies[/b:3f74xhqz]: You are proficient in these skills Acrobatics, Animal Handling, Athletics, Diplomacy, History, Intimidation, Search, Spot, and Survival.
[b:3f74xhqz]Tools[/b:3f74xhqz]: Gaming Set
[b:3f74xhqz]Combat Specialization[/b:3f74xhqz]: You have adopted a particular style of fighting that you specialize in. Choose one of the fallowing option.
[i:3f74xhqz]Combat Archery Focus[/i:3f74xhqz]: You gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls you make with ranged weapons. Also when making and an attack roll at a creature when an ally is in the line of fire, you do not suffer from disadvantage.

[i:3f74xhqz]Combat Reflexes[/i:3f74xhqz]: When a creature that you can see attacks you or a target within 5 feet of you, you can use your reaction to impose disadvantage on the attack roll as long as you are wielding a melee weapon, a shield, or both.

[i:3f74xhqz]Defensive Posture[/i:3f74xhqz]: While wearing light or medium armor, you gain a +1 bonus to Armor Class.

[i:3f74xhqz]Furious Fencing[/i:3f74xhqz]: When fighting with any light or finesse one handed weapon and with one free hand. You gain a +1 bonus on damage roll with that weapon.

[i:3f74xhqz]Great Weapons Combat Fury[/i:3f74xhqz]: When you attack with a weapon that has the two-handed or versatile property you add double your strength modifier to damage rather than one and a half for using the weapon two-handed.

[i:3f74xhqz]Two-Weapon Combat Focus[/i:3f74xhqz]: When you engage in two-weapon fighting, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of the second attack.

[b:3f74xhqz]Weapon Specialization[/b:3f74xhqz]: At 2nd level, choose one weapon for this ability that you are proficient with. While attacking with your selected weapon you gain a +1 to attack rolls and a +2 to damage with it. At 9th level, you can choose another weapon in which to specialize in.

[b:3f74xhqz]Extra Attack[/b:3f74xhqz]: At 5th level, when you use your action to make an attack, you can attack one extra time. If you haven’t used all of your movement for this turn, you may move in-between attack. You can attack two extra times at 10th level and three extra times at 15th level.

[b:3f74xhqz]Improved Weapon Specialization[/b:3f74xhqz]: At 6th level, choose one weapon that you had chosen with your weapon specialization. While attacking with your selected weapon you gain a +2 to attack rolls, instead of +1, and a +3 to damage, instead of +2 with it. At 12th level, you choose another weapon in which to improve your specialization.

[b:3f74xhqz]Iron Will[/b:3f74xhqz]: At 7th level, through shear willpower you can pull yourself through the most powerful of magical effects. You have advantage on wisdom and charisma saves.

[b:3f74xhqz]Indomitable Constitution[/b:3f74xhqz]: At 9th level, your body is strong enough that poisons and toxins are of no use against you. You have advantage on constitution saves.

[b:3f74xhqz]Combat Dodge Roll[/b:3f74xhqz]: At 11th level, when an enemy that is within 30 feet of you that you can see makes an attack roll that would hit you. You can use your reaction to make dexterity save as you roll 5 feet forward, left, or right stopping in a legal space. If you succeed on this roll, you take no damage. The DC for this is equal to their attack roll.

[b:3f74xhqz]Evasive Dodge Roll[/b:3f74xhqz]: At 13th level, your reflexes are so good that you can dodge speeding arrows. You have advantage on dexterity saves.

[b:3f74xhqz]Greater Weapon Specialization[/b:3f74xhqz]: At 15th level, choose one weapon that you had chosen with your improved weapon specialization. While attacking with your selected weapon you have a +3 to attack rolls and +4 to damage rolls with it.

[b:3f74xhqz]Critical Hit[/b:3f74xhqz]: At 16th level, whenever you roll a natural 20 with a weapon that you have choose for weapon specialization, you do maximum damage.

[b:3f74xhqz]Power Slash[/b:3f74xhqz]: At 18th level, you can put all your power into one powerful attack. As an action, you can make a single attack with a weapon that deal slashing damage. You lose your proficiency bonus on your attack roll, if your attack hits it deal double damage. After using this ability you must at least take a short rest to regain the use of this ability.

[b:3f74xhqz]Improved Critical[/b:3f74xhqz]: At 20th level, when you attack with a weapon that you have specialization in you critical hit on a natural 19 or 20.


Compared to version 2.0 Fighter

Fighter
[b:3f74xhqz]Prime Ability[/b:3f74xhqz]: Strength
[b:3f74xhqz]Starting Character Ability Score Adjustment[/b:3f74xhqz]: +1 to strength, dexterity, or constitution.
[b:3f74xhqz]Starting Hit Points[/b:3f74xhqz]: 10 + constitution modifier.
[b:3f74xhqz]Starting Weapon Proficiencies[/b:3f74xhqz]: 12 weapon proficiencies slots.
[b:3f74xhqz]Starting Skill Points[/b:3f74xhqz]: 4 skill points at 1st level.
[b:3f74xhqz]Starting Money[/b:3f74xhqz]: 4d4x10.

Class Features
[b:3f74xhqz]Hit Dice[/b:3f74xhqz]: 1d10
[b:3f74xhqz]Prime Ability[/b:3f74xhqz]: Strength
[b:3f74xhqz]Weapon Proficiencies Slots at Higher Level[/b:3f74xhqz]: One weapon proficiencies slot at 3rd level and every three levels afterwards.
[b:3f74xhqz]Skill Points at Each Additional Level[/b:3f74xhqz]: Two skill points at each level after 1st level.
[b:3f74xhqz]Skills Proficiencies[/b:3f74xhqz]: Acrobatics, bluff, climb, craft, discern motive, diplomacy, force object, hold breath, intimidate, jump, knowledge dungeoneering, knowledge geography, and knowledge history.

[b:3f74xhqz]Weapon Specialization[/b:3f74xhqz]: At 2nd level, choose one melee or range weapon that you are proficient with. Whenever you use the selected weapon to attack you gain a +1 bonus on your attack roll and a +2 bonus on damage rolls with that weapon. When you select a range weapon to specialize in, you only gain the +2 to damage rolls as long as you are within 60 feet of your target. You can select another weapon to specialize in at 9th and 12th level.

[b:3f74xhqz]Attacks Per Turn[/b:3f74xhqz]: At 5th level, when you use your action to attack with a melee or range weapon you can for your move action to attack again. During anytime between an attack you may move up to 5 feet once. You gain a third attack at 10th level and a fourth at 15th level.

[b:3f74xhqz]Improved Weapon Specialization[/b:3f74xhqz]: At 6th level, choose one melee or range weapon that you selected to specialize in. You bonus on your attack and damage rolls with that weapon increases by one to a +2 bonus on attack rolls and +3 damage rolls. You can select another weapon to improve your specialization in at 14th level.

[b:3f74xhqz]Critical Hit[/b:3f74xhqz]: At 10th level, when you make an attack roll with a weapon you have specialized in and roll a natural 20. You deal maximum damage with that weapon; range weapons only deal maximum damage as long as the target is within 60 feet of you.

[b:3f74xhqz]Greater Weapon Specialization[/b:3f74xhqz]: At 15th level, choose one melee or range weapon that you selected to improve your specialization in. Your bonus on your attack and damage rolls with that weapon increase by one to a +3 bonus on attack rolls and +3 bonus on damage rolls.

[b:3f74xhqz]Improved Critical[/b:3f74xhqz]: At 20th level, when you attack with a weapon you have specialized in and roll a natural 20 or 19 you deal a critical hit.


So tell me your guys thought. Which version do you like, comment below and let me know.
CODENAME:Leema
Real Name:Leema Apollyon Har'gachi
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Irennan
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Re: A comparison of Design.

Post by Irennan » Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:48 pm

I like the first much more than the second. I like that it provides more skills and variety (I also really like the Dodge Roll skill). It can also be adapted to play a DEX-based fighter (because of the Dodge Roll).

On a side note, I'd try to avoid assigning just STR as primary stat to fighters, because that would basically rule out (or discourage, at least) the agile warrior archetype.

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Re: A comparison of Design.

Post by Leema Har'gachi » Thu Mar 03, 2016 5:21 am

[quote="Irennan":rjdl4vfx]I like the first much more than the second. I like that it provides more skills and variety (I also really like the Dodge Roll skill). It can also be adapted to play a DEX-based fighter (because of the Dodge Roll).

On a side note, I'd try to avoid assigning just STR as primary stat to fighters, because that would basically rule out (or discourage, at least) the agile warrior archetype.[/quote:rjdl4vfx]

Interesting, that you mention the Combat Dodge Roll feature as it was one of the Abilities I thought would be pretty hard to use successfully. Mostly for three reasons, one it requires the attacking creature to have already succeeded on a attack roll, two your a fighter so you are going to have a high AC already making it hard for you to be hit in the first place, and three your save is against their fully modified attack roll meaning it is not very likely that you'll use this feature on a small roll anyways (especially is they rolled a natural 20).
On the subject of the primary ability in dimension, it will only allow them their proficiency bonus on skills and general ability checks that use the same ability. The idea is You gain your proficiency bonus on skill your are proficient in or that use the same ability as your class prime ability, if you have a skill you are proficient in that is also using the same ability as your classes prime you gain a +5 bonus in addition to your proficiency bonus to the check. Essential, they are more important to skills then anything else, which is why I had the Evasive Dodge Roll ability in that version, mostly to cushion against the high DCs I expect the player to be up against when using the Combat Dodge Roll.
Though it would be nice if I could find a more streamline way of setting the DC for the Combat Dodge Roll, then I wouldn't even need the Evasive Dodge Roll taking up a feature slot.
CODENAME:Leema
Real Name:Leema Apollyon Har'gachi
Class:Variant Illusionist Favored Soul {gestalt}
Race:Shadow Drow
Height:5'8"
Weight:158 Ib.
Hair:Yellowish
Eyes:Purple(pinwheel)
Skin:Pitch-black(surrounded by Shadowy Purple Aura)
Deity:Eilistraee

Irennan
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Re: A comparison of Design.

Post by Irennan » Fri Mar 04, 2016 2:07 am

[quote="Leema Har'gachi":2tn5otjw]

Interesting, that you mention the Combat Dodge Roll feature as it was one of the Abilities I thought would be pretty hard to use successfully. Mostly for three reasons, one it requires the attacking creature to have already succeeded on a attack roll, two your a fighter so you are going to have a high AC already making it hard for you to be hit in the first place, and three your save is against their fully modified attack roll meaning it is not very likely that you'll use this feature on a small roll anyways (especially is they rolled a natural 20). [/quote:2tn5otjw]

It can be basically considered extra AC for DEX-fighters. I like the idea of active defenses (In my system, those are used to avoid blows; armor acts as DR), and I like Dodge Roll for the same reason, but I think that--given what you explained--it could use some help. Perhaps you could assign +5 to it, as if it was one of the class priviledged skill-checks, and compensate by giving some penalities if you try to dodge roll while wearing heavy armor.

Either way, I think that the DX and STR fighters should be archetypes on their own(who can choose among multiple styles for various weapons; I'd also grant each style more techniques--like better zone control for spear wielders, a ''lunge''-like techinque for rapier-users, a close quarter technique for small weapons users that like to be sticky and make use of the reverse grip, and so on), and assign the Dodge Roll only to the DX one. Same goes for the more heavily armored fighter, who could perhaps use some for of armor specialization, be more reliant on shields, and so on. Also, I think that purely martial classes could use some oomph to make them fare better against ranged weapon users and magic users. That said, in general, I like that your first version provides more variety and choice.

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Re: A comparison of Design.

Post by Leema Har'gachi » Sat Mar 05, 2016 4:27 am

[quote="Irennan":3mqgwln5]

It can be basically considered extra AC for DEX-fighters. I like the idea of active defenses (In my system, those are used to avoid blows; armor acts as DR), and I like Dodge Roll for the same reason, but I think that--given what you explained--it could use some help. Perhaps you could assign +5 to it, as if it was one of the class priviledged skill-checks, and compensate by giving some penalities if you try to dodge roll while wearing heavy armor.[/quote:3mqgwln5]

That is one way of handling the DC challenge, though I probable would need to do some testing is the +5 would make a modest enough difference without going overboard to be sure. Penalties for using it with heavy armor does also make a lot of sense.
CODENAME:Leema
Real Name:Leema Apollyon Har'gachi
Class:Variant Illusionist Favored Soul {gestalt}
Race:Shadow Drow
Height:5'8"
Weight:158 Ib.
Hair:Yellowish
Eyes:Purple(pinwheel)
Skin:Pitch-black(surrounded by Shadowy Purple Aura)
Deity:Eilistraee

derebaker
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A comparison of Design

Post by derebaker » Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:51 am

I love how you convert it into numeric form. This should make comparison much easier.

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