Feedback for a project

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Irennan
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Feedback for a project

Post by Irennan »

I've recently written a document about Eilistraee, her followers, and their current plans and goals (it also includes 5e D&D rules for the Sword Dancers), that I wish to release (for free) on the Dungeon Master's Guild (http://www.dmsguild.com/).

If you are interested in providing feedback, the link is this: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B47oo6 ... sp=sharing

Of course, any honest feedback is welcome, be it positive, negative, or really negative.
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Re: Feedback for a project

Post by Bhaern Quel »

A long read. I believe I saw at least one typo. As to the content. Nothing jumped out as me as problematical.

I have not looked at 4th Edition rules so can not provide any feed back on that aspect at all.

I will review it a few more times to see if I have any ideas to change the work.
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Re: Feedback for a project

Post by Irennan »

Thank you for the help :) Yeah, the document needs some polishing for eventual typos. DW about the rules, I'm mostly interested in feedback about the lore.
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Re: Feedback for a project

Post by Leema Har'gachi »

[quote="Irennan":2l8y320y]Thank you for the help :) . Yeah, the document needs some polishing for eventual typos. DW about the rules, I'm mostly interested in feedback about the lore.[/quote:2l8y320y]

Well first I'd like to say, there is a lot of lore in this and of what I read it seem pretty good. A lot of the newer things seem to set up the organization of the faith in a good shape, and has some nice little bits that could make a good plot point for DMs. Granted I'll have to go back over it again when I have less college work plaguing me (like over this coming spring break), but for the most part I like the angle the lore is going. I'll admit however lore isn't really my.. strong suit, especial world building.

I would like to comment a bit on the Sword Dancer domain (since the mechanic development is about all I have any real experience with :( ). I'll start by saying I really like the choices of Domain spells and reading Moon path makes it clear it is a good escape plan spell... or if you like fast travel, but its a bit limited for that use. I was surprised that you made Eilistraee's Moonfire a cantrip and I noticed you put a lot of emphasis in its mobility as a light source.... though I do miss the 2nd editions kill darkness with itself effect, I was glad you brought back the ability to make it pass through small holes like in the original spell. Though this is just a suggestion, but could you have it gain a somewhat lesser version of the moonfire's other abilities once you get your caster level to.. oh.. I don't what ever it is that cantrip usually gain their increases at... Its just a thought.

I actually like the Eilistraee's dance channel divinity power, though just a bit a comment on the bonus to attack rolls for the performance check of 27 or more. It isn't very likely that a character to roll that until very high level even then they would have to make sure they have at least a +4 charisma modifier to get it even 3/10th of the time as advantage isn't too useful for high target rolls so don't worry it shouldn't be too much of a problem if it was a 4 bonus to attack rolls for 27 or more.

Now, I just need a bit of clarification on spellsong to make sure I understand it correctly. So they way it work is you do the charisma check and you succeed and can use one of your spell slots to cast any spell on the cleric, nature domain, light domain, and sword dancer domain spell list like spontaneous spellcasting effects from 3.5 right? Also, I noticed you used rest instead of short rest so I am assuming you mean long rest, because if that is the you can just use "You must complete a long rest before you can use this feature again," after the appropriate level is expended part instead of doing the Once per rest, it makes it a bit more clarified on what you mean that way. Then you can just change the last sentence to " Upon reaching 12th level as a cleric, you can use this feature twice per long rest."

I am also assuming for the Blessed blade feature that you mean you can do the dancing and singing prayer ritual during your short rest (I.E. you still get the benefit of short rest in addition to completing the requirement to attune your sword.), if this is the case then the current beginning word usage of the second sentence of the the second paragraph is a bit... misleading. Rather than reading like this "You must spend a short rest dancing with the sword and singing a prayer to Eilistraee," it should read more like this " You can, during a short rest, perform a dance with the sword and sing a prayer to Eilistraee," this should make it a bit clearer what you mean. If this isn't the case however and you are using "spend a short rest" more as a time frame of how long it takes, may I suggest just telling them how long you must perform the dance and prayer for instead.

Aside for that above everything else for the Sword dancer look Amazing, if I ever get into a 5th edition game I will definitely use this. I will look over this again when I have more time and I'll see about the Equipment and artifacts. I hope this is helpful to you, Irannan~san.

P.S. Oh, by the way. With all this lore in this PDf, and this is just a suggestion but it could easily be called "The Forgotten Realms Guide to Eilistraee" :P. Just a thought mind you. ;)
CODENAME:Leema
Real Name:Leema Apollyon Har'gachi
Class:Variant Illusionist Favored Soul {gestalt}
Race:Shadow Drow
Height:5'8"
Weight:158 Ib.
Hair:Yellowish
Eyes:Purple(pinwheel)
Skin:Pitch-black(surrounded by Shadowy Purple Aura)
Deity:Eilistraee
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Re: Feedback for a project

Post by Irennan »

[quote="Leema Har'gachi":330px8gh][quote="Irennan":330px8gh]Thank you for the help :) . Yeah, the document needs some polishing for eventual typos. DW about the rules, I'm mostly interested in feedback about the lore.[/quote:330px8gh]

Well first I'd like to say, there is a lot of lore in this and of what I read it seem pretty good. A lot of the newer things seem to set up the organization of the faith in a good shape, and has some nice little bits that could make a good plot point for DMs. Granted I'll have to go back over it again when I have less college work plaguing me (like over this coming spring break), but for the most part I like the angle the lore is going. I'll admit however lore isn't really my.. strong suit, especial world building.[/quote:330px8gh]

Yeah, I wanted to give a positive, hopeful vibe. I'm tired of Eilistraee and her followers getting whacked and/or discriminated whenever they appear in a novel or event.

[quote:330px8gh]
I would like to comment a bit on the Sword Dancer domain (since the mechanic development is about all I have any real experience with :( ). I'll start by saying I really like the choices of Domain spells and reading Moon path makes it clear it is a good escape plan spell... or if you like fast travel, but its a bit limited for that use. I was surprised that you made Eilistraee's Moonfire a cantrip and I noticed you put a lot of emphasis in its mobility as a light source.... though I do miss the 2nd editions kill darkness with itself effect, I was glad you brought back the ability to make it pass through small holes like in the original spell. Though this is just a suggestion, but could you have it gain a somewhat lesser version of the moonfire's other abilities once you get your caster level to.. oh.. I don't what ever it is that cantrip usually gain their increases at... Its just a thought.[/quote:330px8gh]

Yep, Moon Path is meant as an escape spell, mostly to bring converts to safety. I made Moonfire a cantrip because I wanted it to be ''at will'' like in 3e (I love the idea of Sword Dancers using it artistically in their performance), so I had to scrap the ''kill darkness'' effect. I really enjoy its mobility, so I emphasized it. What do you mean about cantrips gaining an increase?

[quote:330px8gh]I actually like the Eilistraee's dance channel divinity power, though just a bit a comment on the bonus to attack rolls for the performance check of 27 or more. It isn't very likely that a character to roll that until very high level even then they would have to make sure they have at least a +4 charisma modifier to get it even 3/10th of the time as advantage isn't too useful for high target rolls so don't worry it shouldn't be too much of a problem if it was a 4 bonus to attack rolls for 27 or more.[/quote:330px8gh]

I have considered making it a +4 (and will probably do). Quite honestly, I forgot to adequately consider the attack bonus when I made my calculations, I was mostly worried about making the average def bonus range from somewhat more than +3 at proficiency 1 to about +6 at proficiency 6. +4 cha modifier shouldn't be overly rare, since I envisioned the Sword Dancer as a CHA caster, rather than WIS (although WIS remains an option).

[quote:330px8gh]Now, I just need a bit of clarification on spellsong to make sure I understand it correctly. So they way it work is you do the charisma check and you succeed and can use one of your spell slots to cast any spell on the cleric, nature domain, light domain, and sword dancer domain spell list like spontaneous spellcasting effects from 3.5 right? Also, I noticed you used rest instead of short rest so I am assuming you mean long rest, because if that is the you can just use "You must complete a long rest before you can use this feature again," after the appropriate level is expended part instead of doing the Once per rest, it makes it a bit more clarified on what you mean that way. Then you can just change the last sentence to " Upon reaching 12th level as a cleric, you can use this feature twice per long rest."[/quote:330px8gh]

I meant either rest. It's basically spontaneous casting (I combined the 2e and 3e versions, since 3e allowed spontaneous casting, but only of domain spells), so it's versatile but not overly powerful. A short rest to recharge seemed appropriate to me. Thanks for the heads up on my phrasing.

[quote:330px8gh]I am also assuming for the Blessed blade feature that you mean you can do the dancing and singing prayer ritual during your short rest (I.E. you still get the benefit of short rest in addition to completing the requirement to attune your sword.), if this is the case then the current beginning word usage of the second sentence of the the second paragraph is a bit... misleading. Rather than reading like this "You must spend a short rest dancing with the sword and singing a prayer to Eilistraee," it should read more like this " You can, during a short rest, perform a dance with the sword and sing a prayer to Eilistraee," this should make it a bit clearer what you mean. If this isn't the case however and you are using "spend a short rest" more as a time frame of how long it takes, may I suggest just telling them how long you must perform the dance and prayer for instead.[/quote:330px8gh]

Yes, I will change the phrasing, thanks again!

[quote:330px8gh]
Aside for that above everything else for the Sword dancer look Amazing, if I ever get into a 5th edition game I will definitely use this. I will look over this again when I have more time and I'll see about the Equipment and artifacts. I hope this is helpful to you, Irannan~san.

P.S. Oh, by the way. With all this lore in this PDf, and this is just a suggestion but it could easily be called "The Forgotten Realms Guide to Eilistraee" :P. Just a thought mind you. ;)[/quote:330px8gh]

The Singing Swords are pretty much the 2e version... Moon Maiden's Song is an artifact, a harp. I meant to give a strong ''create and produce wonderful effects through music'' theme, aside from being a direct guidance from Eilistraee, when it comes to doing specific stuff. It's mostly meant to cast spells, rather than give passive benefits, although I'm pretty sure that it needs quite a bit of work, since I've written many effects ''ad hoc''.

The Forgotten Realms Guide to Eilistraee sounds like a fun title :P , but I prefer to stay humble, even more so because much of the lore is actually Ed's--I've just put it together because I want as many as possible to see it.
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Re: Feedback for a project

Post by Leema Har'gachi »

[quote="Irennan":17119csk]

Yeah, I wanted to give a positive, hopeful vibe. I'm tired of Eilistraee and her followers getting whacked and/or discriminated whenever they appear in a novel or event.[/quote:17119csk]

I know, its like they love stone walling us and our beautiful goddess or something.

[quote:17119csk]
Yep, Moon Path is meant as an escape spell, mostly to bring converts to safety. I made Moonfire a cantrip because I wanted it to be ''at will'' like in 3e (I love the idea of Sword Dancers using it artistically in their performance), so I had to scrap the ''kill darkness'' effect.[/quote:17119csk]
Ah, I see. Just to get your opinion what was your opinion on 3rd edition giving Moonfire 1d6+1 cold damage? Also, I agree on the artistic value of our goddesses gift.

[quote:17119csk]
I have considered making it a +4 (and will probably do). Quite honestly, I forgot to adequately consider the attack bonus when I made my calculations, I was mostly worried about making the average def bonus range from somewhat more than +3 at proficiency 1 to about +6 at proficiency 6. +4 cha modifier shouldn't be overly rare, since I envisioned the Sword Dancer as a CHA caster, rather than WIS (although WIS remains an option).[/quote:17119csk]

I understand what you mean, mechanically abilities that alter Armor class and saving throw are the harder to balance, because it doesn't take much to make it broken when introduced with other mechanics like racial armor bonuses or feats. Honestly, though it look well balanced and using the check based system is a creative way to "level cap" a players modifiers to combat stats. Kudos to you for such genius.

[quote:17119csk]
I meant either rest. It's basically spontaneous casting (I combined the 2e and 3e versions, since 3e allowed spontaneous casting, but only of domain spells), so it's versatile but not overly powerful. A short rest to recharge seemed appropriate to me. Thanks for the heads up on my phrasing.[/quote:17119csk]

ok, just need to make sure that is how it was intended to function :P. I agree that short rest seem more appropriate for this version of spellsong and your welcome for the help with phrasing, I was kind of worried about the same thing happening on my Dimensions project myself... sometimes wording is so hard to get right and in RPG you are basically required to make it easy for the reader to understand the rules. Makes me worry soooo badly.

[quote:17119csk]
Yes, I will change the phrasing, thanks again![/quote:17119csk]

Your welcome.

[quote:17119csk]

The Singing Swords are pretty much the 2e version... Moon Maiden's Song is an artifact, a harp. I meant to give a strong ''create and produce wonderful effects through music'' theme, aside from being a direct guidance from Eilistraee, when it comes to doing specific stuff. It's mostly meant to cast spells, rather than give passive benefits, although I'm pretty sure that it needs quite a bit of work, since I've written many effects ''ad hoc''.[/quote:17119csk]

Yeah, the Singing Sword is probable the easiest Eilistraee related thing to update with minimal word changing. I noticed that when I did my feature that turned swords into it. I'll still go over it during the break next week, just in case there is a typo (which I doubt I'll find any, I'm usually horrible at noticing those) or a wording that could be more clear.

[quote:17119csk]
The Forgotten Realms Guide to Eilistraee sounds like a fun title :P , but I prefer to stay humble, even more so because much of the lore is actually Ed's--I've just put it together because I want as many as possible to see it.[/quote:17119csk]

I know right, that title practically writes itself. I agree the everyone need to see all of Ed's lore, I'm actually surprise no one has gone to candle keep and take all of Ed's "word or god" and turn them into a single tome for easy access to answer.
CODENAME:Leema
Real Name:Leema Apollyon Har'gachi
Class:Variant Illusionist Favored Soul {gestalt}
Race:Shadow Drow
Height:5'8"
Weight:158 Ib.
Hair:Yellowish
Eyes:Purple(pinwheel)
Skin:Pitch-black(surrounded by Shadowy Purple Aura)
Deity:Eilistraee
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Re: Feedback for a project

Post by Irennan »

[quote="Leema Har'gachi":1b8lw4rv][quote="Irennan":1b8lw4rv]

Yeah, I wanted to give a positive, hopeful vibe. I'm tired of Eilistraee and her followers getting whacked and/or discriminated whenever they appear in a novel or event.[/quote:1b8lw4rv]

I know, its like they love stone walling us and our beautiful goddess or something.

[/quote:1b8lw4rv]

I'm grateful that they are letting Eilistraee get a second chance, and even get an unlikely ally in her brother. And I'm really looking forward to Ed's ''Death Masks'', in June. He has said to have added lore about Eilistraee to the book, so I wonder what we'll get to learn. I hope that he will give some info on Qilué as well.

[quote:1b8lw4rv]
Ah, I see. Just to get your opinion what was your opinion on 3rd edition giving Moonfire 1d6+1 cold damage? Also, I agree on the artistic value of our goddesses gift. [/quote:1b8lw4rv]

It was on Champions of Valor, wasn't it? I don't mind it (although I'd prefer if it healed rather than dealt dmg), and I think that it is actually a cool effect. On a side note, now I get what you meant with scaling cantrip. However, while that works for damage, I modeled Moonfire on Dancing Lights and Light, so I might add the kill darkness effect at higher levels... but that'd make ot strictly better than the other two. Idk, choosing how to write the mechanics for Moonfire was hard, because it's an iconic spell (alongside the Spellsong), but at the end I chose to put more emphasis on Ed's version in Demihuman Deities and focus on its illumination/artistic value


[quote:1b8lw4rv]
I understand what you mean, mechanically abilities that alter Armor class and saving throw are the harder to balance, because it doesn't take much to make it broken when introduced with other mechanics like racial armor bonuses or feats. Honestly, though it look well balanced and using the check based system is a creative way to "level cap" a players modifiers to combat stats. Kudos to you for such genius. [/quote:1b8lw4rv]

Nah, not genius, I was just looking for a way to make the Sword Dancer actually *feel* like a battle-dancer, and went for the most intuitive route. I wanted their dancing skills to matter. In my personal system, the Sword Dancer is based a lot on dance for melee combat, and music for their magic.

Btw, what would you say about turning the Advantage in ''Blessed Blade'' into +Cha bonus to either attack rolls or Wis saving throws. It would bascially force Sword Dancers to become CHA casters, but it would have better interaction with Advantage-providing buffs...

[quote:1b8lw4rv]
Yeah, the Singing Sword is probable the easiest Eilistraee related thing to update with minimal word changing. I noticed that when I did my feature that turned swords into it. I'll still go over it during the break next week, just in case there is a typo (which I doubt I'll find any, I'm usually horrible at noticing those) or a wording that could be more clear.[/quote:1b8lw4rv]

Originally, my Blessed Blade skill turned the Sword Dancer's weapon into a lesser Singing Sword. However, since they are supposed to be holy artifacts crafted by Eilistraee herself, I preferred to make them unique items.

[quote:1b8lw4rv]
The Forgotten Realms Guide to Eilistraee sounds like a fun title :P , but I prefer to stay humble, even more so because much of the lore is actually Ed's--I've just put it together because I want as many as possible to see it.[/quote:1b8lw4rv]

I know right, that title practically writes itself. I agree the everyone need to see all of Ed's lore, I'm actually surprise no one has gone to candle keep and take all of Ed's "word or god" and turn them into a single tome for easy access to answer.[/quote]

Heh, it would be a HUGE work. Ed has created so much lore over the years that you could fill books with his CK answers.
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Re: Feedback for a project

Post by Leema Har'gachi »

[quote="Irennan":4ygn20oa]
I'm grateful that they are letting Eilistraee get a second chance, and even get an unlikely ally in her brother. And I'm really looking forward for Ed's ''Death Masks'', in June. He has said to have added lore about Eilistraee to the book, so I wonder what we'll get to learn. I hope that he will give some info on Qilué as well.[/quote:4ygn20oa]
I can't wait to read it myself, I hope are darling High priestess get brought back... Also speaking of Lady Qilue' How do we pronounce her name? I don't mean to sound like a jackass... but it is kind of been a problem with me. I've been pronouncing it as Kil-LUE-ya.

[quote:4ygn20oa]
It was on Champions of Valor, wasn't it? I don't mind it (although I'd prefer if it healed rather than dealt dmg), and I think that it is actually a cool effect. On a side note, now I get what you meant with scaling cantrip. However, while that works for damage, I modeled Moonfire on Dancing Lights and Light, so I might add the kill darkness effect at higher levels... but that'd make ot strictly better than the other two. Idk, choosing how to write the mechanics for Moonfire was hard, because it's an iconic spell (alongside the Spellsong), but at the end I chose to put more emphasis on Ed's version in Demihuman Deities and focus on its illumination/artistic value[/quote:4ygn20oa]

Yes, it was in Champions of Valor and was the only book other than Faith and Pantheons in 3.5 to even give her any real mention. Also, that sounds like like a good idea and I understand how hard it is... hell, you seen my first attempt at it, back when next was still the name.

[quote:4ygn20oa]
Nah, not genius, I was just looking for a way to make the Sword Dancer actually *feel* like a battle-dancer, and went for the most intuitive route. I wanted their dancing skills to matter. In my personal system, the Sword Dancer is based a lot on dance for melee combat, and music for their magic.[/quote:4ygn20oa]

It kind of makes sense, it a way.

[quote:4ygn20oa] Btw, what would you say about turning the Advantage in ''Blessed Blade'' into +Cha bonus to either attack rolls or Wis saving throws. It would bascially force Sword Dancers to become CHA casters, but it would have better interaction with Advantage-providing buffs...[/quote:4ygn20oa]

And this one is the reason its taking me some time to reply, I had to think this one through a bit. When I think of the implementation of a feature or mechanic that uses another ability score (in addition to) for something like attack/damage modifier or armor class I tend to look at it two way: First I look at the Maximum bonus a player could have with a straight cleric at the minimum level for the freature (8th in this case, which means a proficiency bonus of +3) and the lowest possible positive modifier (+1 for strength and in this case +1 for charisma too if you want to implement something like this), then we compare this to the maximum possible value a player could have at minimum level and the highest possible positive modifier (keep in mind that there is enough Ability score improvements by level 8 that if they somehow... very unlikely... had an 18 in both strength and charisma, they could have 20), effectively a +5 for strength and charisma. So that would be a range of +5 to +13 at 8th. Though I would make an assumption that most will either have one +3 ability and one +2. I like the + cha bonus Idea, just keep in mind that the will be people will try and go for that +13. You could have it just replace your strength modifier for attack rolls, or apply 1/2 your charisma modifier, or even if you want to be a little more... creative, have it where you add your charisma modifier to it, but only equal to 1/4 your cleric level (I.E. if you had a strength of 16 and a 20 charisma at 8th level, you would have a total attack modifier of +8 rather than +11), but if you feel comfortable with the base range you can just add the full charisma bonus. These are just some ideas you can use to get a feel for how much effect the concept might have to attack rolls.

[quote:4ygn20oa]
Originally, my Blessed Blade skill turned the Sword Dancer's weapon into a lesser Singing Sword. However, since they are supposed to be holy artifacts crafted by Eilistraee herself, I preferred to make them unique items.[/quote:4ygn20oa]

I understand how you feel.

[quote:4ygn20oa]
Heh, it would be a HUGE work. Ed has created so much lore over the years that you could fill books with his CK answers.[/quote:4ygn20oa]

Yeah, I can imagine. It would make it easier to find them though.
CODENAME:Leema
Real Name:Leema Apollyon Har'gachi
Class:Variant Illusionist Favored Soul {gestalt}
Race:Shadow Drow
Height:5'8"
Weight:158 Ib.
Hair:Yellowish
Eyes:Purple(pinwheel)
Skin:Pitch-black(surrounded by Shadowy Purple Aura)
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Re: Feedback for a project

Post by Irennan »

[quote="Leema Har'gachi":1c9dx4h9][quote="Irennan":1c9dx4h9]
I'm grateful that they are letting Eilistraee get a second chance, and even get an unlikely ally in her brother. And I'm really looking forward for Ed's ''Death Masks'', in June. He has said to have added lore about Eilistraee to the book, so I wonder what we'll get to learn. I hope that he will give some info on Qilué as well.[/quote:1c9dx4h9]
I can't wait to read it myself, I hope are darling High priestess get brought back... Also speaking of Lady Qilue' How do we pronounce her name? I don't mean to sound like a jackass... but it is kind of been a problem with me. I've been pronouncing it as Kil-LUE-ya.[/quote:1c9dx4h9]

It won't be much, but it will be some new lore and more than a couple sentences, which is always welcome (and that's assuming that the editor hasn't been a killjoy). I don't think that Qilué will be back (although I'd love for her to be), I was hoping to read something along the lines of her soul being with Eilistraee and with Elkantar and Ysolde, at least.

[quote:1c9dx4h9][quote:1c9dx4h9]
It was on Champions of Valor, wasn't it? I don't mind it (although I'd prefer if it healed rather than dealt dmg), and I think that it is actually a cool effect. On a side note, now I get what you meant with scaling cantrip. However, while that works for damage, I modeled Moonfire on Dancing Lights and Light, so I might add the kill darkness effect at higher levels... but that'd make ot strictly better than the other two. Idk, choosing how to write the mechanics for Moonfire was hard, because it's an iconic spell (alongside the Spellsong), but at the end I chose to put more emphasis on Ed's version in Demihuman Deities and focus on its illumination/artistic value[/quote:1c9dx4h9]

Yes, it was in Champions of Valor and was the only book other than Faith and Pantheons in 3.5 to even give her any real mention. Also, that sounds like like a good idea and I understand how hard it is... hell, you seen my first attempt at it, back when next was still the name.[/quote:1c9dx4h9]

Yeah, I remember your version. You did something like that for the dark elves' racial feature. But I honestly liked it. Anyway, Eilistraee did get various mentions in 3e: she appears in ''The Silver Marches'', and even gets an entry in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, and in the Player's Guide to Faerun.


[quote:1c9dx4h9]

And this one is the reason its taking me some time to reply, I had to think this one through a bit. When I think of the implementation of a feature or mechanic that uses another ability score (in addition to) for something like attack/damage modifier or armor class I tend to look at it two way: First I look at the Maximum bonus a player could have with a straight cleric at the minimum level for the freature (8th in this case, which means a proficiency bonus of +3) and the lowest possible positive modifier (+1 for strength and in this case +1 for charisma too if you want to implement something like this), then we compare this to the maximum possible value a player could have at minimum level and the highest possible positive modifier (keep in mind that there is enough Ability score improvements by level 8 that if they somehow... very unlikely... had an 18 in both strength and charisma, they could have 20), effectively a +5 for strength and charisma. So that would be a range of +5 to +13 at 8th. Though I would make an assumption that most will either have one +3 ability and one +2. I like the + cha bonus Idea, just keep in mind that the will be people will try and go for that +13. You could have it just replace your strength modifier for attack rolls, or apply 1/2 your charisma modifier, or even if you want to be a little more... creative, have it where you add your charisma modifier to it, but only equal to 1/4 your cleric level (I.E. if you had a strength of 16 and a 20 charisma at 8th level, you would have a total attack modifier of +8 rather than +11), but if you feel comfortable with the base range you can just add the full charisma bonus. These are just some ideas you can use to get a feel for how much effect the concept might have to attack rolls.[/quote:1c9dx4h9]

Thanks for the feedback. You have a point there, and they could choose a rapier, or to wield a longsword 1H--which I made a finesse weapon for the Sword Dancers--: that would make maximizing DEX and CHA and going for that +13 even more palatable, because they'd also get better AC.

If it were up to me, I'd enjoy to make all sort of variations and ''extravagant'' rules, but I've been advised to keep it as simple as possible, whenever I can (and I also got that from many forum comments regarding 5e homebrew rules). +13 at 8th would indeed be very strong, but advantage is strong too (it equals to roughly +3.8 on average--that is, if my calculations are correct :/ ).

On a second thought, I guess that I will keep advantage, as assigning +CHA to Blessed Blade would basically make the CHA/DEX stats combination mandatory for any Sword Dancer, therefore limiting choice (although I was also thinking to scrap entirely the choice between WIS and CHA as casting stats, and pick the latter--and proficiency in DEX and CHA saving throws--).
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Re: Feedback for a project

Post by Leema Har'gachi »

[quote="Irennan":7d4cl499]

Thanks for the feedback. You have a point there, and they could choose a rapier, or to wield a longsword 1H--which I made a finesse weapon for the Sword Dancers--: that would make maximizing DEX and CHA and going for that +13 even more palatable, because they'd also get better AC. [/quote:7d4cl499]

Oh, damn. I didn't even think about how weapons would factor in, nice catch there. Personally, if they are going the dex route, it is possible they might try using two weapons fighting with it. Which would work well, either with the +cha modifier or with the advantage on one sword mostly since you already get another roll to begin with. Granted my memory of the weapon section of the 5th edition PHB is a little on the weak side, so I don't remember if and how many light finesse sword-like weapons there are.

[quote:7d4cl499]
If it were up to me, I'd enjoy to make all sort of variations and ''extravagant'' rules, but I've been advised to keep it as simple as possible, whenever I can (and I also got that from many forum comments regarding 5e homebrew rules). +13 at 8th would indeed be very strong, but advantage is strong too (it equals to roughly +3.8 on average--that is, if my calculations are correct :/ ). [/quote:7d4cl499]

You should point me to some of these forums, they could give me some more good ideas. Granted, keeping it simple is grate for your first design stray in an edition. Helps you get a little more familiar with what tends to break more often and what is too limiting. On the subject of advantage, it functions more as a bad roll cushion than anything else (mostly to prevent having a lot of rolls below 7, where even high ability modifier can't help much). By itself with a character who isn't being created by a optimizer, most of the time it won't do much for players with low modifier and even though it doesn't stack or have priority system on how it cancels disadvantage (Having advantage and disadvantage at the same time cancels each other out regardless of how many effect give you advantage on that roll as long as you have one case of disadvantage).Essentially, its like the luck mechanic from the halflings in 4th (ugggh) and it is pretty much assumed that it can effectively replace +1 and +2 bonuses from spells and effects. However, since it is just a reroll it is pretty unreliable compared to bonuses. A +2 can save you if you roll a 10 if you have a strength of 16 trying to hit a AC 15 monster, compared to the much less likelier roll a 12 on the reroll (D20s, seem to roll 8-11 a lot from what I seen. Then again, they aren't usually the GOOD dice like what Spoony has. That however is just my opinion on the who advantage mechanic.

[quote:7d4cl499]
On a second thought, I guess that I will keep advantage, as assigning +CHA to Blessed Blade would basically make the CHA/DEX stats combination mandatory for any Sword Dancer, therefore limiting choice (although I was also thinking to scrap entirely the choice between WIS and CHA as casting stats, and pick the latter--and proficiency in DEX and CHA saving throws--).[/quote:7d4cl499]

You could have it where you get advantage on attack rolls and have a bonus to damage equal to 1/2 your Charisma modifier rounded down. Dex and Cha saves Does sound more like a Sword Dancer to me, and keep in mind that if you want to just have Cha as the casting stat you might be better off having them just be a stand alone class by itself. I mean you have most of it already, all you need to do is steal the Spell per day and channel divinity class features and then BAM!! Instinct Sword dancer class. Granted, I understand you probable want to keep it as a Domain for the Cleric, rather being based on the cleric.
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Re: Feedback for a project

Post by Irennan »

[quote="Leema Har'gachi":1mgg30ql]
You should point me to some of these forums, they could give me some more good ideas. Granted, keeping it simple is grate for your first design stray in an edition. Helps you get a little more familiar with what tends to break more often and what is too limiting.[/quote:1mgg30ql]

The biggest one: http://www.enworld.org/forum/forum.php Yes, I agree that starting simple helps new designers, but what I've read was mostly about ease of learning for the players/DMs.

[quote:1mgg30ql]
On the subject of advantage, it functions more as a bad roll cushion than anything else (mostly to prevent having a lot of rolls below 7, where even high ability modifier can't help much). By itself with a character who isn't being created by a optimizer, most of the time it won't do much for players with low modifier and even though it doesn't stack or have priority system on how it cancels disadvantage (Having advantage and disadvantage at the same time cancels each other out regardless of how many effect give you advantage on that roll as long as you have one case of disadvantage).Essentially, its like the luck mechanic from the halflings in 4th (ugggh) and it is pretty much assumed that it can effectively replace +1 and +2 bonuses from spells and effects. However, since it is just a reroll it is pretty unreliable compared to bonuses. A +2 can save you if you roll a 10 if you have a strength of 16 trying to hit a AC 15 monster, compared to the much less likelier roll a 12 on the reroll (D20s, seem to roll 8-11 a lot from what I seen. Then again, they aren't usually the GOOD dice like what Spoony has. That however is just my opinion on the who advantage mechanic.[/quote:1mgg30ql]

Yes, a reroll isn't as reliable as a static bonus, but advantage translates to an actual bonus, on average, if you do the math. The average result jumps from 10.5 (d20) to about 13.8 (2d20 drop lowest)

[quote:1mgg30ql]
You could have it where you get advantage on attack rolls and have a bonus to damage equal to 1/2 your Charisma modifier rounded down. Dex and Cha saves Does sound more like a Sword Dancer to me, and keep in mind that if you want to just have Cha as the casting stat you might be better off having them just be a stand alone class by itself. I mean you have most of it already, all you need to do is steal the Spell per day and channel divinity class features and then BAM!! Instinct Sword dancer class. Granted, I understand you probable want to keep it as a Domain for the Cleric, rather being based on the cleric.[/quote:1mgg30ql]

I prefer to keep the Sword Dancer as a cleric domain, because specialized classes don't really fit in 5e except as subclasses, as far as I can see.
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Re: Feedback for a project

Post by Leema Har'gachi »

[quote="Irennan":4dmakbfv]
The biggest one: http://www.enworld.org/forum/forum.php Yes, I agree that starting simple helps new designers, but what I've read was mostly about ease of learning for the players/DMs.[/quote:4dmakbfv]

Thanks for the link.

[quote:4dmakbfv]
I prefer to keep the Sword Dancer as a cleric domain, because specialized classes don't really fit in 5e except as subclasses, as far as I can see.[/quote:4dmakbfv]

Well, its not that they don't fit it is just that the main intention is to only have them if you really can't fit everything into a preexisting class. But it is understandable.
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Re: Feedback for a project

Post by Irennan »

[quote="Leema Har'gachi":2iykej55][quote="Irennan":2iykej55]

Well, its not that they don't fit it is just that the main intention is to only have them if you really can't fit everything into a preexisting class. But it is understandable.[/quote:2iykej55][/quote:2iykej55]

Hm, I might attempt to make it a PrC (they have started doing them with an UA article).
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Re: Feedback for a project

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I've published the document: http://www.dmsguild.com/product/176341/ ... -her-Faith

Of course, since I can still edit it, further feedback is still welcome.
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Re: Feedback for a project

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