Ed Greenwood Talks About Eilistraee

This is the place where the leaders of the Chosen post news. News about the Chosen, news about drow/Eilistraee, news about NWN/NWN2 and news generally considered interesting to us. This is also the place where you can comment on those news items. :rss:

Moderators: Shir'le E. Illios, Bhaern Quel

Bhaern Quel
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Post by Bhaern Quel »

[quote="Tsa'drin":3shdkxjk]I suppose I get up in arms about such broad based statements as "to learn Empathy a male needs to become female when following Eilistraee" would be the same as someone else claiming "In order to fight well, a female needs to become a male when following Tempus".

Just food for thought.[/quote:3shdkxjk]

In some ways most of the recent discussion belongs under the Theological Debate section of the forum.

IAE To feel female by being female does increase understanding of what being female is. The same applies to being male that in your words ""In order to fight well" can not be a better answer. How better can a female in male form understand the weaknesses of males then by being one?

Males are not just fighters nor are females just people with a different body configuration.

If you look at some of the other discussions I advocated Clerics spending some time in ather gender form.

Not that ChangeDance was that much of a problem (or should not be) in a Realm where gender can get changed by magic to unwilling targets.
Tsa'drin
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Post by Tsa'drin »

Gender has nothing to do with empathy. Either you have it, or you dont as a person.

Becoming a female wont suddenly grant someone empathy. Both genders can be as equally unfeeling as another.

One does not need to understand what it is to be female in order to have empathy to the female condition...one needs to understand how to be empathic to all people, male and female alike.

If they have this empathy in the beginning; then it doesnt matter, whether they be female, or male. No change is needed or required to grant such a feeling.

Being good in combat can be a designation of either male or female as well.

The point of the example was to show how short sighted and ignorant both statements are.
Unen_Stealthfoot
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Post by Unen_Stealthfoot »

[color=indigo:2jgzkur9]Didn't we agree to disagree?[/color:2jgzkur9]
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Argoth
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Post by Argoth »

You call short sighted something I consider to be a general truth. I think you underastimate females a lot. And by saying so you give yourself under my judgement, and that would be the same, as your was towards me. The difference is that I don't give jedgements on someone's opinions. I don't judge opinions. You are perfectly entitled to having a different opinion then mine, but none has the right to give general statements as if they were revelations upon such a topic. Altogether it is something that a great lot has various opinions.

I don't mean to say that you are not right. You are, from your point of view, and let someone else deside who of us was right. Or just acquire one of the versions. Or let someone feel persuaded by the power of arguments.

Going back to the matter of things, I refer to my own experience and beliefs, that females are more sensitive, caring and sensible then males, thus I understand the need of becoming a female to get more of these traits. Acceptions occur, of course, but I left them aside in this discussion.

At any rate, the Dark Maiden is female, and I accept the way things are, and accept as a divine lesson this need, or truth.

Another thing is that I believe in the power of coversation as a way of solving problems and draw conclusions. However I don't see it here. I know I most certainly don't like when someone disagrees with me. I am male, and hence, a despote. In a way. Don't feel offended. It's not my aim to attack anyone. I just don't see the point of this conversation going any further. I think we have reached a point in this topic, where any other posts will be just repeating earlier statements.

Cheers.
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Post by Rooky »

I agree with Dope Hat boy.

There really is no need to further this topic anymore. We've been repeating over and over the same topic and still it leads us to nowhere fast.

Does Eilistraee have a fair rule in the Gender bussines?
Who knows?
Who cares?

The answers will come in due time, until then in a week from now, some fresh newbie, will come in here, ask the same question and all begins anew...I say we all go out get us a few tankards and watch the local barmaids fight in the old Higland way; bear breasted, and in a pile of mud...

Goodnight.
:3
Argoth
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Post by Argoth »

Agreed.
Unen_Stealthfoot
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Post by Unen_Stealthfoot »

[color=darkred:23ggsqz9]'Dope Hat Boy'? Dope Hat Boy? DOPE HAT BOY???? :mad: :mad: :mad: [/color:23ggsqz9]
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Tsa'drin
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Post by Tsa'drin »

My opinions are based on logic which are based on fact, not emotion.

Emotion is inherently wrong when forming an opinion around any subject. Personal experience is an appeal to false authority.

Labeling someones conclusion in a derogatory manner is argument ad homenum.

'Moving the goal posts' is when a conclusion has been reached, and the opposing side doesnt like that they've been outwitted, so they change the argument criteria.

I could spend time logically finding all these things from those who are accepting of the retconning and backpeddling that's been done with Eilistraee, but I won't.

Logically, I made my point.
Bhaern Quel
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Post by Bhaern Quel »

[quote="Tsa'drin":1og6z4u8]My opinions are based on logic which are based on fact, not emotion.

...

Logically, I made my point.[/quote:1og6z4u8]

When discussing religion, logic does not apply.

Also discussion of this religion belongs down here: viewforum.php?f=6

*sighs* How can you apply logic to a world that science does not work? (If you answer, please answer in correct area.)
Tsa'drin
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Post by Tsa'drin »

Logic can be applied to any form of debate or argumentation, be it religion or science or what have you.

Saying that logic isnt applicable in such situations is rather telling, and certainly gives insight to the responses I've read (thus the responses that had no logic in them, were illogical and therefore not very valid).

On another note: science does work, just not to the extent of the world which we live in, but that has nothing to do with whether logic is applicable or not.
Bhaern Quel
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Post by Bhaern Quel »

High Priestess,

Please lock this or at least take care of some of the last 20 posts or so.

I have tried to redirect discussion though my posts and that has failed, my green suit of course does not extend this far.
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Shir'le E. Illios
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Post by Shir'le E. Illios »

I'm inclined to agree, but I'll leave it open for now.

I have no problem with discussing religion or descussing whether you like changedances or not, whether you think it's a good thing or not. But this thread really isn't the place to do it in (and my mistake for participating in it as well).

I'll leave the thread open in case anyone wants to comment purely on the original news post, but I warn people to take the discussion to the religious forum Bhaern linked above. If not I will lock this thread.


Love -x-x-x-

Shir'le
F'sarn natha tithaur wun l'su'aco.

-= Shir'le E. Illios =-
Chosen of Eilistraee
Unen_Stealthfoot
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Post by Unen_Stealthfoot »

[color=indigo:2weqd2j7]According to GHotR, Eilistraee actually does kill Vhaeraun, so I don't think that Vhaeraun actually planned this and I think that he really is dead. I think I also mentioned that apparently only greater powers are going to be able to save their realms and therefore survive.

BTW Ed Greenwood helped write Grand History of the Realms so I hope this counts as on topic.[/color:2weqd2j7]
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