4E Elves, Eladrin and Drow; A Fractured Family

This is the place where the leaders of the Chosen post news. News about the Chosen, news about drow/Eilistraee, news about NWN/NWN2 and news generally considered interesting to us. This is also the place where you can comment on those news items. :rss:

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Arathen
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Post by Arathen »

hehe. besides. It's possible to even use the new rules and still play with Eilistraee. No one says you have to follow the information set in the books perfectly ;)
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Post by jameslt0 »

I asked this in a different place on the forum but here might be better place to ask.

Is there going to be a difference between Drow and Dark Elves in the Forgotten Realms? I was curious, after reading 2 books of the Lady Penitent series, if the Drow and Dark Elves will be 2 seperate races. The 2nd book mentions some of the current Drow being 'tainted' by a demon, but not all of them.

I was thinking that some of the Drow stats, better racial abilities than elves like SR, that maybe they should be 2 seperate races. Dark Elves would be closer to Sun or Moon elves while Drow would be the same as 3.5 ed Drow. My thought was 2 completely different types of "dark elf". You have Dark Elves and Drow. Another difference would be Drow feel more comfortable in the Underdark where Dark Elves would feel drawn to the surface. Like all things D&D, there would be exceptions.

My basis for the difference for Dark Elves and Drow would be the fall, Drow were once known as Ilythiiri. The Dark Elves would be Ilythiiri. I suppose my real desire for 2 seperate races would be to play an Ilythiiri in D&D.
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Post by Argoth »

In my opinion, Drow and Ilythiiri are the same. And I don't quite catch the need, or desire for that matter, of making TWO kinds of Dark Elves. The drow ARE dark elves.

But what do I know?
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Post by Arathen »

well, if you wanna get really, really technical, drow are dark elves in name only, since after the curse placed on them and generations of selective breeding they've become something completely different. Honestly, though? I wouldn't be adverse to a return of the true dark elves...some way of circumventing the curse (since according to the last bits of the novel Blackstaff it's retroactive and will change a dark elf that returns to their natural form after millenia of being in a different one, lol).
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Post by Ix'Chimalxochitzin »

To be honest, i think a partial return of the Dark Elves would be disastrous. If part of the Drow would be pardoned from the curse and turn back into Dark Elves, there's no doubt in my mind Eilistaree would be amongst them by default.

Thus changing the Drow back to their old, evil-only self as the good ones will have turned into Dark Elves again, making the segregation between 'good' and 'evil' as racial as the one between high elves and Drow. Drow would hunt Dark Elves because they'd not be Drow anymore, lobbing them in with the surface races and ruining Eilistraee's chances of peacefully returning the remaining Drow into redemption.

So yeah... Either all of them, or none of them. 'All' would only be happening if Lolth died, because there's no way in Hell i could see that happening while she's still around. For 'None', nothing would need to change basically, so that would be the most likely option of the three in my opinion.
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Shir'le E. Illios
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Post by Shir'le E. Illios »

I kinda have to agree. Splitting them into two separate races, and thus kinda making alignment racial, would ruin the whole interplay between good and evil that the dark elves have going. Kind of the appeal of Eilistraee is struggling to be good in an environment that overwhelmingly wants one to be evil.

I can see how some people might like to see drow return to some undivided, clear evil (so that they don't have to find excuses to kill them and can treat them as simple monsters). But I find that drow are deeper than that and allow for a whole spectrum of interesting roleplaying; splitting them up into two races would kinda destroy that. Dark elves would be the 'good' guys who should have fairly little trouble getting accepted on the surface and drow would be the 'evil' guys just there to be killed by adventurers; any interaction between the two would be on that playing field.

In some ways it'd be the same as if Eilistraee (or Lolth for that matter) 'won'. And that would mean that there's nothing to work for anymore (beyond what normal races would).

In the past I've made a split between "drow" and "surface drow", but that had a lot more to do with circumventing the rather stupid ECL system and little with actually have two different races.

Besides, there are already more than enough elf races. :p


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Post by jameslt0 »

Well, it was a good thought while it lasted. As I think I said before, I just think it would be cool to play an Ilythiiri Dark Elf, before they became Drow and were driven underground. At that point, I think is where most Drow became tainted by that demon. Atleast, marked by Corellon as a tainted race.

I really was not thinking in terms of alignment. More like, a race of dark elves that live or lived on the surface and Drow. Also, something about [i:nn20br27]Faerzress[/i:nn20br27] and the Drows connected to it. Maybe Dark Elves have no connection to [i:nn20br27]Faerzress[/i:nn20br27].
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just thought of something

Post by jameslt0 »

It was mentioned in a book, I won't name, trying to sever the Drow connection to [i:1xo38s3v]Faerzress[/i:1xo38s3v]. Instead of 2 seperate races, the Drow, all the Drow, would revert to a pre-Fourth Crownwars Dark Elf, or Ilythiiri Dark Elf.
Ix'Chimalxochitzin
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Post by Ix'Chimalxochitzin »

Oh, you can still play one if you wanted, just not in the 'modern' setting.

If you dig up 'Ye Olde Lore' about the matter, and compare that to 'standard' elven abilities, i'm pretty sure you could piece together a fairly good image of what Ilythiiri Dark Elves must have been like.

Once you know that, you could always make an RP taking place before the Fourth Crownwar. Your game, your rules after all :D
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Post by Argoth »

Have to agree with Ix on this one. Everything is possible as long as you create a fairly logical setting.
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Post by Talwyn Aureliano »

Yes, house rules are always the way to go if an official campiagn supliment doesn't give you what you need for your own campaign.

There are lots of things in D&D that are inconsistent. That springs from the fact that its been around for over 30 odd years, been in the hands of numerous editors/creators etc and has evolved and morphed into what we se today. It's so different from the 2nd Ed FR campaign that Ed Greenwood put out in the late '80s that I'm starting to wonder if it's really the same game at all?

The problem with revisionism is that in order to make something "new" you still have to cite original source material and as such, if you re-interpret that "lore" differently, which people are familiar with, its there that you encounter problems. This is because the folks who are familiar with the material are being asked to effectively unlearn what they know and learn a new set of "truths".

For my money, it's pointless and frustrating. I am all for tweaking a system but why reinvent the wheel? This is what I feel has been done here with 4thEd and the drow.
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Argoth
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Post by Argoth »

[quote:u6kktcmp]
Talwyn Aureliano: This is what I feel has been done here with 4thEd and the drow. [/quote:u6kktcmp]

I'd say it's what has been done to 4Ed and the Realms in general! Not only drow. The drow here are only a striking and most evident example of this "change". But I agree with Talwyn.
Aylstra Illianniis
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Post by Aylstra Illianniis »

Okay, so could someone direct me to this book series? Lady Penitant? I don't have a book store close enough to get to (I don't own a car, and the nearest one is the next town over) and my library doesn't have them as far as I know. could someone give me titles so I can have them order them? I really want to know what's going on with this.
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Post by jameslt0 »

[quote="Aylstra Illianniis":3ogaxc24]Okay, so could someone direct me to this book series? Lady Penitant? I don't have a book store close enough to get to (I don't own a car, and the nearest one is the next town over) and my library doesn't have them as far as I know. could someone give me titles so I can have them order them? I really want to know what's going on with this.[/quote:3ogaxc24]

The author is Lisa Smedmen. The titles are:

Sacrifice of the Widow (The Lady Penitent, Book 1)
Storm of the Dead (The Lady Penitent, Book 2)
Ascendancy of the Last (The Lady Penitent) (Book 3)
Aylstra Illianniis
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Post by Aylstra Illianniis »

Ah, thank you kindly! I'll have to see if they can order them.
By the Dark Maiden''s grace do we meet. May she guide and protect us.

"Where Science ends, Magic begins." -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491

A link to my tales, including my Marvel hero!:
http://mickeys-tavern.com/index.php?showforum=188
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