4E Elves, Eladrin and Drow; A Fractured Family

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Shir'le E. Illios
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4E Elves, Eladrin and Drow; A Fractured Family

Post by Shir'le E. Illios »

I’m not quite sure how new this is, seeing as D&D Insider doesn’t seem to post dates with their articles (bad, bad D&D Insider), but I just found an article on D&D Insider entitled [url=http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dn ... e:10vbfo3d]A Fractured Family[/url:10vbfo3d] which deals with the differences between elves, eladrin and drow in 4[sup:10vbfo3d]th[/sup:10vbfo3d] edition.

Now, the article is obviously written for the default setting (instead of for the Forgotten Realms), so it doesn’t directly apply. But I think there’s still a number of things there that indicate possible changes in Forgotten Realms and Eilistraee, and in general it’s very useful to see how they see the differences between the three elf races.

You need to be logged in to the site to read the link above, but I’ll post the text here in its entirety (and I’ll try to include the images too, but not sure if those work without being logged in).

[quote:10vbfo3d][b:10vbfo3d]A Fractured Family[/b:10vbfo3d]
Elvish Strife, Separation, and Rebirth
[i:10vbfo3d]by James Wyatt[/i:10vbfo3d]


[img:10vbfo3d]http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/dnd_d ... _cover.jpg[/img:10vbfo3d]

Once they were a single race: The elves say they were elves, the eladrin say they were eladrin. The drow say they were debased, unfinished, and fatally flawed, and would have stayed that way but for the help of Lolth.

In the younger days of creation, a fey race walked the borders between the world and the Feywild. Corellon and the two sisters, Sehanine and Lolth, delighted in this race, for all three gods saw in them the qualities they most valued. Corellon prized them for their artistry, their innate sense for the ebb and flow of magic, their song, and their fierce anger in battle. Sehanine loved their stealth, their gentle footsteps in the shadows of the forest, and their curiosity and wonder at the newborn world. And Lolth particularly enjoyed those who sought power and seized it, who spied and schemed to achieve their goals, who showed no mercy to their enemies or their rivals.

For this young race, like most of the fey, had a very different sense of morality from that of other races. Moradin, Pelor, and Bahamut taught their followers the noble path of law and good, encouraged them to shun evil, value life, and build societies that protected their weaker citizens. The elves, though, were as changing as the seasons and the moon, mercurial in their passions. Corellon taught them to love beauty and savor life but to kill in an ecstatic fury of blasting magic and whirling blade when they faced their enemies in battle. Sehanine taught them to find their own paths without any particular ethical code. And Lolth extended Sehanine's doctrine to its extreme, teaching the elves to place their own goals above all other cares and to stop at nothing to achieve them.

The elves as a race were neither good nor evil -- they didn't think in those terms. They enjoyed beauty and pleasure, and many of them found pleasure in kindness and beauty in every facet of life, and so acted in good ways. Still, they might inflict pain or even death, not out of cruelty, but purely out of curiosity. Others found pleasure in causing pain, and turned their path to evil.

Sehanine, god of the full moon, was fair-skinned and dark-haired, while Lolth, god of the new moon, was the opposite. As the race of elves spread and built their first cities, Lolth marked her favorites -- those elves who delighted in murder and destruction -- by matching their coloration to hers. Even before Lolth's rebellion, these dark-skinned elves began to claim the name of drow, an ugly Elven word that refers to the things that haunt the night.

Up to this point, the legends and histories of the three races mostly agree. Some details may differ -- most notably the name by which the unified race was known -- but the broad outline is the same. With the rebellion of Lolth, however, the histories diverge. They agree on the fact of Lolth's revolt: She turned against her sister and Corellon and led her chosen ones in battle against the other elves. The reason for her revolt is less clear. The most common legends include the following:

[list:10vbfo3d][*:10vbfo3d] Lolth grew tired of sharing her power and authority with Sehanine and tried to kill her sister, to claim the shadows and the moon as her exclusive domain.[/*:m:10vbfo3d]
[*:10vbfo3d] Lolth was jealous of the affection between Corellon and her sister and tried to kill one or the other of them.[/*:m:10vbfo3d]
[*:10vbfo3d] Lolth descended into the Elemental Chaos and even plumbed the Abyss in a search for knowledge or power, and she made alliances with demons -- and then Corellon and Sehanine sought to punish her blasphemy.[/*:m:10vbfo3d]
[*:10vbfo3d] Or Lolth believed that her chosen people should rule the elf race and led them to seize power, which only then resulted in conflict among the gods.[/*:m:10vbfo3d][/list:u:10vbfo3d]
Whatever the reason for the revolt of Lolth and the drow, the consequences were devastating. War tore through the shining fey cities and consumed the woodlands of the world with fire. Some say that the world and the Feywild grew more distant from each other, making passage between them more difficult and driving a wedge between the elves who favored one over the other. Ultimately, the drow were cut off and banished from elf and eladrin communities, driven into the dark places of the world, the Feywild, and the Shadowfell. Lolth made her home in the Abyss, taking the title of the Demon Queen of Spiders.

By the end of the rebellion, the elves, the eladrin, and the drow were three distinct races. Each was shaped by the nature of their home and the favor of their gods.

[b:10vbfo3d]Elves: A Closer Look[/b:10vbfo3d]

[img:10vbfo3d]http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/dnd_d ... _elves.jpg[/img:10vbfo3d]

Whatever the history and legend of their origin, the elves of the present day are very much creatures of the world. Though still fey in their nature, they are attuned to the world and its primal power, at home in the woodlands, and they live in harmony with the beasts and trees that share their home.

Since the revolt of the drow, the elves have walked quietly over the earth, leaving little trace. As kingdoms and empires grew and collapsed -- the human realm of Nerath, the dragonborn Arkhosia, the tiefling Bael Turath, and countless nations before them -- the elves remained in their woodland homes, mostly unaffected by the rise and fall of nations. On a few occasions, the eladrin built kingdoms in the world. Sometimes these kingdoms sought cordial relations with their elf neighbors, and elves and eladrin lived as close as they ever had since Lolth's rebellion. At other times, the eladrin tried to force the elves into a reunion of the races and met bitter resistance. There can be no doubt, now, that the two races will never again be one.

Shunning kingdoms of their own, the elves no longer build cities as their ancestors did, but make their homes among the trees. They live in family or clan units, sleeping in tents or under the stars as they range through the forests and gather what they need to survive. At other times, they in temporary villages built on platforms in the branches, linked by vines and ropes -- almost a natural part of the trees themselves. They roam with the seasons, following animals on their migrations or journeying to where fruits and nuts grow in greatest abundance. At least twice a year -- at midsummer and midwinter -- elf families and clans gather together to observe the turning of the seasons, share stories and news of the recent months, and celebrate marriages, births, and deaths.

In the darkness that has been growing since the fall of Nerath, the elves find it more and more difficult to maintain their traditional ways. Many of their forests are no longer safe even for their keen-eyed archers and hardy warriors. Some forests have burned to their roots, driving the elves to find safe refuge in the better-defended settlements of other races. Where, in the past, it was unusual to find elves in human towns except as traders, now many elf families have taken up permanent residence among humans, halflings, and even dwarves, joining with these other races for protection against the darkness.

As a race, elves are fleet of foot and agile. Though they are by no means stupid, they do not place the same value on learning and intellect that their eladrin cousins do. Rather, they value the wisdom of years and the truth of intuition and insight. Their more comic legends are full of eladrin who are puffed up with their own knowledge but lack even a modicum of common sense, and cunning elf heroes who trick their foolish cousins.

Elves share a passionate and emotional nature with many of their fey cousins. They experience feelings deeply and intensely, and their emotions are often mercurial. An elf can swing from wailing grief to heartfelt laughter in a moment, and as quickly to burning rage. They make bitter enemies, sometimes clinging to grudges through long generations, but they are reliable and compassionate friends who remember gratitude longer than wrongs.

Many elves still revere Corellon and (particularly) Sehanine, but many others worship Melora, god of the wilds where they make their homes. Even those elves who drift toward evil rarely turn to Lolth. The legend of her rebellion stings too much. Instead, they worship the Raven Queen, Zehir, or occasionally savage Gruumsh.

For many elves, the gods are not much different from the clan elders who have moved on from this life to another. They remember the gods in thanks and might pray for insight, but not many elves become champions of any god's ideals as a cleric or paladin. They are not as fascinated with arcane magic as their eladrin cousins, often growing impatient with its intricacies and precision. They are drawn more to mastery of primal power, which keeps them attuned to the natural world with its spirits and forces. Elf rangers, rogues, druids, and barbarians are the most common adventurers.

[b:10vbfo3d]Eladrin: A Race Apart[/b:10vbfo3d]

[img:10vbfo3d]http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/dnd_d ... ladrin.jpg[/img:10vbfo3d]

The eladrin claim to be the original race from which both elves and drow split, with the (usually) unspoken implication that both other races fell away from the state of near-perfection that the eladrin embody. Certainly, the eladrin are still the most fey of the three elf races, still steeped in the magic of the Feywild and still the favored children of Corellon. Arcane magic suffuses their bodies and souls, sometimes emanating from them in a soft nimbus of fey light.

Many races of the world can look back in history to a shining example of their ancestors' accomplishments: the dragonborn empire of Arkhosia or the human realm of Nerath, for example. When the eladrin reflect back on their days of glory, they think first and foremost of the time before Lolth's rebellion, when the whole Feywild shined with the light of the eladrin cities. Those cities now lie in ruins, still hauntingly beautiful among the fey forests with moonlight shining on their shattered spires and ivory walls, but haunting in their testimony to the violence of the rebellion.

Eladrin still build towers of graceful beauty in the grandest places of the Feywild -- breathtaking gorges and verdant glens -- and sometimes even among the ruins of their ancient cities. But no eladrin city of the present day, or of the past hundred centuries, can compare to the heights of the eladrin race in that mythic time before. Eladrin cities of the present day are usually little more than a single ivory spire rising above a scattering of smaller homes, all built in perfect harmony with their surroundings as if carved from the earth by wind and rain.

There have been times in the history of the world when eladrin tried to rebuild the ancient glory of a united race, extending their city-states into the natural world and making overtures to nearby elf communities. These dreams of kingdoms that would bridge the worlds have always crumbled to dust with the passing of years, usually within the span of a single generation.

Eladrin society has more in common with the human structures of nobility and rulership than it does with the family-based society of the elves. Noble houses ruled by eladrin with titles such as Bralani of Autumn Winds or Ghaele of Winter govern tiny princedoms scattered across the Feywild. The eladrin swear loyalty to their noble protectors, who promise to help defend them against fomorians and other dangers of the fey darkness. Unlike human rulers, these noble eladrin wield tremendous power derived from a close connection to the magic of the Feywild, so their tiny city-states do remain as lights, however dim and flickering, standing against the encroaching darkness.

Eladrin share the grace and agility of their elf cousins but place more value on the developed intellect than on intuition and emotion. All eladrin are scholars to some degree, versed in the history of their race and the theories of magic and more inclined to calculate possible solutions than to run with a gut feeling.

The eladrin can seem cold and emotionless to outsiders, if sometimes capricious, and they are certainly less passionate than the elves. Their grief manifests as a wistful melancholy, their pleasure as a soft smile, and their anger as a simmering glare. Much like the elves, they have long memories for both gifts and grudges.

Most eladrin worship Corellon and Sehanine. Some temples in the Feywild are still arranged as they were before Lolth's rebellion -- built as three interlocking circles, each with its altar to one of the three elf gods. In most of these temples, Lolth's altar has been destroyed or defaced. Sometimes it is draped with black cloth to hide it from view, and sometimes it is visible but simply unadorned. There are eladrin who believe that the three gods will one day be reconciled, just as the three races will again be one.

Some say that Corellon's dominion of Arborea lies in the Feywild, while others claim it floats in the Astral Sea. It's possible that it drifts between the worlds or somehow exists in both places at once. To the eladrin mind, Arborea is perhaps not so different from the court of any noble eladrin -- larger and more magnificent, perhaps, but a place where any eladrin would feel at home, even in the presence of so great a lord as the noble Corellon. Sehanine, it's said, wanders freely in and out of Corelllon's home but spends much of her time in the Feywild, where travelers might stumble across her path. Some who attend one of Sehanine's moonlit feasts are said to become lost for centuries, while others awaken after a single night to find themselves blessed with gifts and powers beyond their imagining.

More so than the elves, eladrin sometimes become champions of a god in much the same way that one might become a fey knight in service to a noble eladrin. Divine magic is not alien to the eladrin, but arcane magic is their love and part of their nature. Eladrin wizards are far more common than warlocks, sorcerers, or bards, but any form of arcane magic is a source of endless fascination for the race.

[b:10vbfo3d]Noble Eladrin[/b:10vbfo3d]

The lords and ladies that rule the eladrin are powerful fey who embody the character of the race. Their magic is tied to seasons and emotions. A ghaele might lash out with a blast of wintry cold, while a coure sows strife among her enemies. They are enigmatic and aloof and can be very capricious, especially when mortals venture into their domains. The tale of Ferrin Toth, a human wizard who ventured into the Feywild seeking arcane secrets, illustrates the nature of the noble eladrin.

Proud of his knowledge and confident in his arcane power, Ferrin Toth used a ritual to transport himself into the Feywild. After parting the veil between worlds, he found himself in a lovely valley with a crystalline spire rising beside a sparkling waterfall at the valley's head. He presented himself at the palace gate in the late afternoon, asking for an audience with the ruler of the place.

Two women escorted him into the presence of their lord Immeral, Firre of Passion. Warm braziers lit the audience hall against the approaching twilight and fire seemed to dance in the opalescent eyes of the eladrin lord. He welcomed the human wizard graciously, descending from his throne to escort the traveler on a tour through the palace. Ferrin lingered by the doorway to the eladrin's magnificent library, but Immeral told him he could explore the library in the morning. Ferrin tried to protest -- there was still enough daylight for him to read -- but the eladrin wouldn't hear him. He hurried Ferrin to a luxurious guest room, warned him not to leave the room until dawn's light burned on the horizon, and left him alone.

Ferrin couldn't sleep. His glimpse of the lord's great library tormented him, and desire to plumb its secrets consumed him. When the palace was silent and the full moon glittered in its spires, Ferrin crept from his room and tried to retrace his steps to the library. As he walked, the corridors seemed to twist in on themselves, and soon the gleaming crystal walls melted into thickets of briars. He wandered through what had become a labyrinth until dawn began to brighten the sky. Then the two women who had brought him to the lord's audience hall stepped out of the thickets. Their lovely faces and forms vanished in a flash, revealing monstrous creatures of wood and vine, swinging arms like mighty cudgels at him.

With a word of refuge, Ferrin returned to the sanctum of his own tower. But the vision of the Firre of Passion's library haunted him. Every night he tossed and turned on his bed, thinking of the library and the wonders he had glimpsed through its doorway. Every morning, when dawn's light burned on the horizon, he thought he stood again in that doorway, and hope surged in his chest -- but as soon as the sun rose above the distant hills, his vision cleared and he was still in his tower. Many times he returned to the Feywild, but he was never able to find Immeral's palace again.

[b:10vbfo3d]Drow: Lolth's Chosen[/b:10vbfo3d]

[img:10vbfo3d]http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/dnd_d ... 1_drow.jpg[/img:10vbfo3d]

The drow are creatures of evil and darkness, exiles banished to the subterranean realms beneath the Feywild, the world, and the Shadowfell. Their ties to the forests and valleys of nature are cut, and they live by cruelty and domination, no longer in harmony with the beasts of the wild.

The drow build their cities deep underground, their slender spires and feylit towers echoing or mocking the graceful eladrin cities of the Feywild. Their society is a study in paradox. Within a drow city, various families or houses hold power. A drow without a connection to one of these houses is an outcast, and members of other races are rarely anything but slaves to these houses. The drow are inclined to empire, unlike their cousins, and the well-ordered houses would perhaps conquer both the Underdark and the surface world were it not for Lolth and her priests. Lolth is a god of treachery and chaos, and at her urging, her priests lead the house matrons in constant battles for dominance. Even when a single house manages to cling to power for an extended time, it must be constantly vigilant against the threat of a lesser house trying to claim its position, and struggles among the lesser houses prevent the city from acting in anything like a concerted effort toward conquest.

Drow share the agility of their cousins, which they often put to use in stealth and trickery. Although they are no taller than eladrins, they have a presence that often makes members of other races feel smaller and on edge -- a fury seems to be at constant boil behind their blank white eyes, ready to explode at the slightest provocation. Like the elves, their moods can change in an instant, most often transforming into blind, murderous rage.

The drow remain Lolth's own, and they tolerate the worship of no other god. The names of Corellon and Sehanine are blasphemy to a drow's ears, and even a euphemistic reference to either god is accompanied by spitting on the ground. The drow revere spiders because Lolth chose them as her symbol, and they traffic with demons because Lolth has made some demons her servants. The priests of Lolth hold political as well as spiritual power, serving as advisers to the house matrons if not actually filling that position themselves. Drow society revolves around Lolth, though it means a constant state of civil upheaval.

While elves and eladrin are inclined to view the gods as simply a greater form of their own lords and elders, the drow give Lolth their unquestioning devotion. Far more drow follow divine paths to become clerics or paladins than either elves or eladrin do -- perhaps in part because of the temporal authority that comes with service to Lolth but also for the opportunity to commune more closely with their god and savor her power flowing through them. They have not forgotten their heritage of arcane study, however, and produce many mighty wizards and warlocks. While religion and politics are primarily the arena of women among the drow, the arcane masters of the race are mostly men.

The more high-minded elves and eladrin sometimes take a compassionate view of the drow, perhaps believing that the three races might one day be reunited. The drow, on the other hand, permit no such weakness of thought, as they see it. Whatever their short-term plans of conquest or rebellion, the drow long for the day when they will exterminate their kindred, obliterating the stain of elves and eladrin from the world and the Feywild. Only occasionally do these dreams manifest in any kind of action, but drow have been seen fighting alongside fomorians in the Feywild.

Without a doubt, the aspirations of the drow echo the dreams and schemes of Lolth, the Spider Queen. In her Abyssal domain of the Demonweb Pits, she sits and waits, plotting the day when she can snare her sister and Corellon in her webs and finish the work she started at the dawn of time.

And then the three races will be only one.

[b:10vbfo3d]Drow As Player Characters[/b:10vbfo3d]

With the release of the [i:10vbfo3d]Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting[/i:10vbfo3d] in the summer of of '08, drow will be presented as a fully playable character race. Although drow as a race are a singularly wicked people, cruel and treacherous in their dealings with others, a smattering in every generation learn cooperation and the value of alliance. While some of these are merely cunning in their decision to gain the trust of others, a few truly come to value the positive aspects of camaraderie and friendship, sometimes even with those not of their own race.

[b:10vbfo3d]Play a drow if you …[/b:10vbfo3d]

[list:10vbfo3d][*:10vbfo3d] want to be good at skulking about, striking quick, and employing a variety of dirty tactics;[/*:m:10vbfo3d]
[*:10vbfo3d] ?enjoy playing a hero in search of redemption and who struggles to rise above the wickedness of his people;[/*:m:10vbfo3d]
[*:10vbfo3d] ?are considering a ranger, rogue, warlock.[/*:m:10vbfo3d][/list:u:10vbfo3d][/quote:10vbfo3d]
There’s a few interesting things in this article I think.

First of all a bit of hope; with the three reasons to play drow they post there’s very clearly still the one to play Eilistraeen drow: “Play a drow if you enjoy playing a hero in search of redemption and who struggles to rise above the wickedness of his people”. Of course that could just be for those wanting to play Drizzt clones (which still is a money cow for them), but at least that reason, and the reason for Eilistraee’s existence in the first place, is still on the designers’ minds. I just wonder about that question mark at the start of the line; maybe just some artefact.

For the rest I got the sense that the story of how the drow split off from the other elves has been extended to include the split between the elves and the eladrin (to a lesser extend), but otherwise still feels very much like the split there was in the Forgotten Realms. Only a few details are different (no Eilistraee and Vhaeraun of course, and Lolth is not Corellon’s wife, but Sehanine’s sister), but that could just be differences between the settings. On similar lines them dropping the name “Araushnee” for pre-separation Lolth is probably just setting differences.

Another very interesting thing to note is that Sehanine (probably Sehanine Moonbow in Forgotten Realms, elf goddess of the moon) is considered the goddess of the full moon and, more interestingly, Lolth is considered goddess of the new moon. That’s particularly significant considering that Eilistraee’s symbol has already been changed (in the Lady Penitent series) to be half dark and half light; like a first quarter moon between the full moon and the new moon. In a way it makes sense for Eilistraee to be between the dark and the light like that.

Of course, it’s also quite possible that Lolth isn’t any kind of moon goddess in Forgotten Realms (and to be honest I don’t think it makes sense for her to be as she’s a deity of the Underdark; and I think she’s already got a portfolio that’s way too extensive). So maybe in Forgotten Realms they’ll make Eilistraee goddess of the new moon. But I’m not sure I’m happy with that since that’d likely make her an evil deity (it’d be interesting to have a good deity of the new moon, but somehow they seem to relate dark with evil).

The way the split works I can see that the goal of the followers of Eilistraee might be a reunification of the races. So instead of trying to become more elven again (as they do in Forgotten Realms right now) they might aim to make all the elf races one again. As such they’d be of vital importance to those of the elves and eladrin who want the same. As the text states, there are those among the eladrin and elves who want the races to be reunited but the drow pretty much just want to kill the other two races. Those drow looking for unification would be very rare (and thus valuable). That’s definitely a direction I could see the Forgotten Realms taking as well.

For the rest the description of drow is pretty much the same as always: they’re loyal to Lolth, they kill each other, they could probably take over the world if they but worked together. :p

Interesting note is that the Demonweb Pits are described as an “Abyssal domain”; so it’s not separate from the Abyss in the default setting. I wonder if they’ll reverse the separation of the Demonweb Pits in the Forgotten Realms now.

Anyway, there you go.


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Post by jameslt0 »

I liked the part in there about the Drow. They may not reverse the seperation of the Demonweb Pits for the Abyss, because the history of how the Drow became Lolth's chosen is different than their Forgotten Realms history. Not completely different, but there are differences.
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Post by Talwyn Aureliano »

Just a quick reply and I'll comment in detail later.

WoTC appeared to have changed the essense of elves entirely.
Elves are now more "fey" than in previous settings. More mecurial and chaotic than before. This is very odd indeed IMO.

Also they've mess about with the creation story a lot and making Lloth the goddess of the Dark Moon, WTF is all that about? :roll:
What about Selune and Shar? Making Sehaine and Lloth carbon copies of Selune and Shar shows that the writers of the new game are craetively bankrupt and have to rip off their own material and pass it of as new :# bleh

I'm not surprised they didn't get rid of their ability to milk Drizz't for all its worth. That's a sensible business decision. However there also needs to be a good storyline behind it, why a Drow would want to leave their life of power & depravity. Eilistraee being half light and half dark, for me at least, is too wishywashy, too trite. She used to be the Silver Dancer, she stood for good, a beacon of light in the darkness. Now she is only half as good as she used to be :uh-huh:
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Post by jameslt0 »

That's what happens when a Human goes to thinking.
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Post by Talwyn Aureliano »

[quote="jameslt0":26tb09rp]That's what happens when a Human goes to thinking.[/quote:26tb09rp]

:p

Nothing wrong with human taking to thinking now is there? :))
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Post by Shir'le E. Illios »

[quote="Talwyn Aureliano":3sx7xijq]Also they've mess about with the creation story a lot and making Lloth the goddess of the Dark Moon, WTF is all that about? :roll:
What about Selune and Shar? Making Sehaine and Lloth carbon copies of Selune and Shar shows that the writers of the new game are craetively bankrupt and have to rip off their own material and pass it of as new :# bleh[/quote:3sx7xijq]
Well, remember that this isn't Forgotten Realms, it's their 'default setting' (which is basically just a chaotic jumble of all things they found cool in various settings). But you're right in that the first thought that came to my mind was "that sounds suspiciously like Selune and Shar".

Thinking about it... let's just hope the Forgotten Realms doesn't go that way.

[quote="Talwyn Aureliano":3sx7xijq]Eilistraee being half light and half dark, for me at least, is too wishywashy, too trite. She used to be the Silver Dancer, she stood for good, a beacon of light in the darkness. Now she is only half as good as she used to be :uh-huh:[/quote:3sx7xijq]
I've personally never really seen the connection between "dark" and "evil" (well, I understand where it comes from). And part of Eilistraee's appeal was that she's 'dark' and yet still good. This half-light, half-dark thing just makes her a bit darker (which isn't a bad thing). The only question that remains for me is if she remains equally good (and on that note I have severe doubts).

Maybe I'm just trying to grasp at straws here.


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Post by Arathen »

Personally, I've come to the conclusion (based on my own hopes, I suppose, but still...) that they likely won't kill either Lolth or Eilistraee despite their wager (if Eilistraee wins, Lolth will likely find some way to circumvent it, and there will be some way out for Eilistraee I think), but also...I doubt they'd make Eilistraee evil. Darker, perhaps, but not -evil-. I can handle darker. If they made her evil, then there was little point in thinning the dark elven pantheon, yes? And they lose that integral balance between the good and evil that Eilistraee and Lolth had. Of course...I might be putting too much faith in WotC, but that's just how I feel.
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Post by Argoth »

Ok, time to make some comments.

Abyss vs. Demonweb Pits.
Providing the spellplague effects, most of the deities gone with their planes, there could a little change here. Don't think Lolth would be week enough for her hole plane to disapear in some weird twist of energies, neither do I think the Abyss would vanish. Maybe the two would somehow merge? Then would Lolth reside somewhere in the Abyss, and WotC make FR a little more comparable to the default setting.

New Moon vs. Old Moon.
I don't think they'll extend the changes from default onto FR here. The differences are quite clear. Sehanine, goddess of the moon and Lolth's sister vs. the New Moon. I have to agree with Shir'le and exagerate a little on this one. Lolth's people dwell in the Underdark. They've long forgotten what the moon looks like, apart from those that venture to the surface. Why should this be significant? Maybe it's a clue to some master plan of Lolth to take over Sahanine's domains (or this particular), just as a means of implementing the basic assumption: kill the elves and eladrin. If the two races fall, their gods will surelly lose power, thus becoming easy prey for the Spider Bitch. In those terms yes, Lolth as a symbol of the new moon is understandable.

Darkness vs. Evil
Ok. We already know Eilistraee is somehow changed, more dark, somewhere in between light and utter darkness. The half lit moon, and she wearing a mask. Personally I don't like this changed. But, what could we expect? To me WotC wanted to make sure that every living being in Fearun remembers, once a drow, always a drow; no matter how good they are, how close to the light is their Goddess, they are still tainted by darkness. And there's nothing to it.

Another thought I had right now is something I remembered from the Sith Lords. Remember Kreya talking about Revan? The line between fall and sacrifice is very thin. Perhaps Revan became a Dark Lord of the Sith out of neccesity?
It could be a similar case with Eilistraee. She somehow might have known about some evil plan of Lolth and Vhaeraun. Through the events of the Lady Penitent series she has chosen to sacrifice a part of her own light, simply to prevent her followers to fall. The hole thing about gender issues, making them equal, aprooving assassins' doing, combining two separate churches to become one stronger, to which she will be a god. Even should she fail in the struggle against Vhaeraun, He would consume her, thus the situation is similar. Only the other way round. And again: instead of three contradictory forces, out of which Lolth's church could take the rest out, one by one, there is one opponent. Maybe it was a way of keeping Lolth from starting a total religious war? Or Eilistraee had foreseen somehow the spellplague and wanted to make sure she herself would survive, for the sake of her people? Just a couple of guesses. I personally think Eilistraee went through all this for the sake of the drow that want to stick to the light. It is not as bright as it was, but it still is light. I think she the choice she had and that she sacrificed some part of her on purpose. After all, she sees a lot of things differently. She is a goddess after all.

More to come...
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Shir'le E. Illios
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Post by Shir'le E. Illios »

You know, listening to you guys always makes me feel a little optimistic about Eilistraee's future. Thank you.

We'll survive this, I know. Maybe that sounds dramatic, but that's what I believe. :)


Love -x-x-x-

Shir'le
F'sarn natha tithaur wun l'su'aco.

-= Shir'le E. Illios =-
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Post by Ix'Chimalxochitzin »

[quote="Shir'le E. Illios":3k7v6vtk]You know, listening to you guys always makes me feel a little optimistic about Eilistraee's future. Thank you.

We'll survive this, I know. Maybe that sounds dramatic, but that's what I believe. :)


Love -x-x-x-

Shir'le[/quote:3k7v6vtk]

And if not, there's always 3.5Ed ;)
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Post by Argoth »

And dozens of source books.
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Post by Rooky »

Just a few simple thoughts...

I don't think that Sehanine and Lolth bear too much of a resemblance to Selune and Shar. Well maybe Sehanine does seem similar a bit to Selune, but Lolth to Shar? No, the last time I checked Lolth doesn't govern over a bunch of emo hicks who don't know what to do with them selves. Maybe they will at some point dominate the world, if the get rid of the flood they're creating.

Why in Hells name would Gruumsh accept Elves? Hello, a faggot god-elf chucked the mans eyeball out, and is now keeping it in a jar in his villa. I don't think Gruumsh will be way to over-joyed one he finds out Elves are commi' knockin' at his door...

"Hello, Mr. Gruumsh, leader of leaders, god of gods, king of all Orcs, we a few Elves who suddenly decided we don't like that faggot came here, to your backyard to ask you really really really nicely (with sugar lumps on top) that can we join you in your effort to kill Corellon...pliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiizzz...."
Seriously...

When did Eilistraee become....when [b:34qrppfz]WAS[/b:34qrppfz] she a shining beacon of light? Ok, I completely understand that she guides and teaches her followers to be accepting taking in their own example, and guiding the lost Underdark drow (who are quite happy with the power they wield thank you) up to the surface world to lead lesbian orgies by the dozen and live happily ever after (if God chucked his hand up Marry's ass to plant a seed, Eilistraee can do the same(....she's like Chuck Norris....)
She's Chaotic, mentally unstable has a sword that's twice mine (Rooky's) size, and can grow twice the size of her own sword...and she's naked and hasn't had a haircut in a millenia.
In what way possible is she the standard Lawful-stick-up-my-ass-Good deiety?

Please...
:3
Argoth
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Post by Argoth »

Well, I don't recall anyone saying she's the light bulb of all heavens and hells. Contrasted with Lolth and other drow deities, or any evil one for that matter, yes. Still, it is not the light of the Sun, it's moonlight. A reflection of the Sun. Not too bright, but it is still light. I don't know if I'm making any sense here.

O and one more thing. About being chaotic. Just a thought I had lately. Being chaotic (to me, or playing a character) is obeing some rules, whenever it may bring some profit, or at least prevent from loss. Like me yesturday, when I was a drunk driver. And I don't even have a driver's licence.
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Post by jameslt0 »

[quote="Rooky":2opd6ej5]Just a few simple thoughts...

I don't think that Sehanine and Lolth bear too much of a resemblance to Selune and Shar. Well maybe Sehanine does seem similar a bit to Selune, but Lolth to Shar? No, the last time I checked Lolth doesn't govern over a bunch of emo hicks who don't know what to do with them selves. Maybe they will at some point dominate the world, if the get rid of the flood they're creating.

Why in Hells name would Gruumsh accept Elves? Hello, a faggot god-elf chucked the mans eyeball out, and is now keeping it in a jar in his villa. I don't think Gruumsh will be way to over-joyed one he finds out Elves are commi' knockin' at his door...

"Hello, Mr. Gruumsh, leader of leaders, god of gods, king of all Orcs, we a few Elves who suddenly decided we don't like that faggot came here, to your backyard to ask you really really really nicely (with sugar lumps on top) that can we join you in your effort to kill Corellon...pliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiizzz...."
Seriously...

When did Eilistraee become....when [b:2opd6ej5]WAS[/b:2opd6ej5] she a shining beacon of light? Ok, I completely understand that she guides and teaches her followers to be accepting taking in their own example, and guiding the lost Underdark drow (who are quite happy with the power they wield thank you) up to the surface world to lead lesbian orgies by the dozen and live happily ever after (if God chucked his hand up Marry's ass to plant a seed, Eilistraee can do the same(....she's like Chuck Norris....)
She's Chaotic, mentally unstable has a sword that's twice mine (Rooky's) size, and can grow twice the size of her own sword...and she's naked and hasn't had a haircut in a millenia.
In what way possible is she the standard Lawful-stick-up-my-ass-Good deiety?

Please...[/quote:2opd6ej5]

I forgot about Rooky's colorful .... way with words.

i LIKE it. *I made the I lower case on purpose so that "like" was more pronouce in my sentince. :D*
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Post by Ix'Chimalxochitzin »

No probs, using lowercase 'i' is one of the few consistant mistakes i keep making.

What can i say, i'm not a native english speaker. As such, uppercase letters apparently drifting in the middle of a sentence looks unnatural to me, therefore i simply keep using lowercase.

It's not as if it makes the entire post unreadable anyway ^^;
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